| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Can we have a poll to find out how translators are doing financially? Thread poster: Guofei_LIN
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Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 10:04
French to English
Well according to that website I don't make average income.
I believe the median income is much lower, and is used to calculate the poverty level (a certain percentage below that income) and also to determine whether someone can be called rich (the same percentage above that income).
Taking the median income in France, I weigh in at a highly satisfactory level, above average but not rich.
As for lying, I'm pretty sure a lot of people omit to tell the truth here. Nobody's going to want to admit to having effed up with a client, on a public forum where anyone can read about it.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:04
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Guofei_LIN wrote:
Such polls are easy to give a distorted picture if we lump the established translators together with the others who are still trying to find their foot.
The quick polls ask just one question. What you're asking for would require a polling method that asks a second question (how much do you earn) based on a previous question (how long have you been a translator) within the same poll.
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'Average' is not indicative of anything, especially in countries with high levels of inequality/income disparities.
My niece straight out of uni, in her first job and living with her parents, earns the average.
If I earned that average in my city (or any larger city in my country), I'd need to camp in a park.
I concur with what Daryo said -- only comparison to people with a similar level of education/qualifications would be meaningful.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:04
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
For my country, it's $55,200.
However, that table was created by taking the country's total income and dividing it by the country's population. This means that "income" that people receive from other sources than their work is also included.
And in different countries, a different percentage of people's overall income come from the work that they do (the rest may come from government subsidies or employer contributions). The Netherlands (where I live) is a socialist country, so people receive much more money from the government in addition to income from work than e.g. in Australia.
Still, a poll like that would be interesting. What would make or break the poll would be the answer options, and ProZ.com favours fewer options.
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| A short survey might be a better way to get meaningful information | Feb 2, 2023 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Guofei_LIN wrote:
Such polls are easy to give a distorted picture if we lump the established translators together with the others who are still trying to find their foot. The quick polls ask just one question. What you're asking for would require a polling method that asks a second question (how much do you earn) based on a previous question (how long have you been a translator) within the same poll.
That was my initial take. I think we might be able to arrive at something slightly more meaningful by running a survey. It wouldn't need to be too complex, but it would give better room to ask for and get information that stands a greater chance of being useful for people as one point of comparison.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:04
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Kay Denney
France
Local time: 10:04
French to English
Samuel Murray wrote: For my country, it's $55,200. However, that table was created by taking the country's total income and dividing it by the country's population. This means that "income" that people receive from other sources than their work is also included. And in different countries, a different percentage of people's overall income come from the work that they do (the rest may come from government subsidies or employer contributions). The Netherlands (where I live) is a socialist country, so people receive much more money from the government in addition to income from work than e.g. in Australia. Still, a poll like that would be interesting. What would make or break the poll would be the answer options, and ProZ.com favours fewer options.
Thank you Samuel, your explanation means that the "average income" figure is pretty meaningless. I have another source of income than translation, so I declare a higher sum of money to the tax office than what I earn translating.
Still the median income would also take into account that other source of income, so the disparity in median and average/mean income would still apply.
Trying to remember from my maths lessons from over 40 years ago, why the median is more relevant. I think it's because billionaire incomes bloat up the average/mean, whereas each billionaire only count as one person for the median, so the median better reflects the amount of money most people have at their disposal.* With the richest guy in the world currently being a French guy, the average/mean in France would obviously be terribly bloated.
*Not sure if I'm clear here, maths was never my strong suit and tends to bring on headaches, which is why I work with words not numbers. https://www.statology.org/when-to-use-mean-vs-median/ explains it in proper mathematical terms if what I have said is meaningless.
[Edited at 2023-02-02 15:42 GMT]
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Tom in London wrote: In relation to the UK I got the following info, about how translators compare to others, from this website https://tinyurl.com/25rm5gzp 
Don't know where they got those figures from, but UK minimum wage is close to £20,000 a year...
Wherever they came from, they may be skewed by a disproportionate amount of translators not working full-time.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:04
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:04
Serbian to English
+ ...
| The significance of isolated parts ... | Feb 4, 2023 |
Ice Scream wrote: Daryo wrote:
Trying to figure out what's "the average income" that way would assume that respondents ALL have a well above average understanding of statistics.
. Follow your own advice and you’ll see that there is a link in the question to a figure for each country… :-;
Did you notice this bit:
Poll results would probably have a "margin of error" of 10 - 20 or maybe even 30% due to varying personal interpretations of what is to be included in "income"
Even when splitting statistics by whole countries THAT would still be a huge source of errors / unreliable data.
To give you an idea: try to compare "income" from salary and from being sole trader or from operating through your own company. Simple and easy, surely? Everyone will do it exactly the same way?
and especially did you notice this part:
"a meaningful comparison would be to use as baseline the national average income of all professionals of comparable levels of qualification"
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 10:04
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Kay Denney wrote:
Still the median income would also take into account that other source of income, so the disparity in median and average/mean income would still apply.
The method used by WorldData is, at least, reliable, in the sense that it uses information that everybody can agree on. The Dutch government statistics bureau uses a definition of "median income" that may be different from that of other countries' governments. In the Dutch case, when the government reports on "median income", they mean specifically "gross income from labour", i.e. not any other sources of income. But the French government may use a different definition.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 10:04
French to English
Samuel Murray wrote: Kay Denney wrote:
Still the median income would also take into account that other source of income, so the disparity in median and average/mean income would still apply. The method used by WorldData is, at least, reliable, in the sense that it uses information that everybody can agree on. The Dutch government statistics bureau uses a definition of "median income" that may be different from that of other countries' governments. In the Dutch case, when the government reports on "median income", they mean specifically "gross income from labour", i.e. not any other sources of income. But the French government may use a different definition.
... And it's perfectly possible to have another source of income that is also labour. Like, for a short while I was teaching translation techniques at uni.
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You can pick anything apart if you want to. But at some point you have to settle for "good enough".
Anyway, I do just fine by any measure of average earnings.
I make less than most of my academic peers, but then I work less too.
| | | | Nikolay Novitskiy
Russian Federation
Local time: 13:04
Member (2018)
English to Russian
| Money is not the most important thing | Feb 6, 2023 |
Ice Scream wrote:
I make less than most of my academic peers, but then I work less too.
Well, I don't think that money is the most important thing in the world. We have friends, families, pets and thouthands of ways to enjoy our life rather than earning dollars.
And as far as translantion jobs are concerned, I would rather chose an interesting task with a lower rate, rather than a boring report, or manual, or something like this.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:04
Serbian to English
+ ...
| The "good-enoughness" of "good-enough" & the happiness index | Feb 10, 2023 |
Ice Scream wrote:
You can pick anything apart if you want to. But at some point you have to settle for "good enough".
Anyway, I do just fine by any measure of average earnings.
I make less than most of my academic peers, but then I work less too.
Yes and no.
Yes, no measurement is perfect.
No, "good-enough" is not always good-enough - the "good-enoughness" of "good-enough" must be good enough for the intended purpose.
As proposed, this poll would be "good enough" for no more than only a very rough estimate of variations in income, a bit like trying to figure out what's going on outside by looking through a steamed window.
As illustrated with countless examples with official statistics, where commentators launch themselves into elaborate analysis of variations of barely a tenth of a percentage point, when the "measurement error/incertitude" is ten times the supposed "detected variation".
As for "money is the most important thing in the world / let's take into account job satisfaction" there is definitely a merit in it. I couldn't agree more, and it is relevant for many people, but trying to measure that is an even bigger can of worms.
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