| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Keeping up with spoken source language fluency Thread poster: Ben_ (X)
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:11
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Gail Bond 
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:11
Member (2009)
French to English
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Have you considered Meetup? Not sure exactly where you're based, but I see that you expressed an interest in the Leeds Powwow, so you may be interested in popping along to one of the Leeds French Language Meetups: http://www.meetup.com/leedsfrenchmeetup/
I've been to a few of them myself, but am lucky to spend several months of the year in France so it's not much of a priority for m... See more Have you considered Meetup? Not sure exactly where you're based, but I see that you expressed an interest in the Leeds Powwow, so you may be interested in popping along to one of the Leeds French Language Meetups: http://www.meetup.com/leedsfrenchmeetup/
I've been to a few of them myself, but am lucky to spend several months of the year in France so it's not much of a priority for me.
If you're not in Leeds, of course, you can search for a different one near you.
HTH
Gail ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 06:11
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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| Record your own voice | Oct 8, 2013 |
Ben Harrison wrote:
For those who don't live in their source-language country or who has more than one source language, how do you keep up the fluency in the spoken language?
I don't, but now that I think about it, I think one thing that bothers me about my own fluency is not the ease of using the language but the fact that I lose the ability to articulate in my language. You know that it's bad when you can hear it yourself, but... even if you can't hear it yourself when you're speaking the language, you'll hear it clearer if you listen to a recording of yourself.
So, what might be a good idea would be to regularly record your own voice as you are reading e.g. a newspaper article online, or by having an imaginary convesation (or a real one), so that you can listen to yourself critically and identify spots of weakness.
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Thanks for that, Tom... I knew them already... I do have Italian TV (satellite) and we also speak Italian in the family, so no problem...
I also go back very often and I must say these days it's very easy to keep up with what's going on in your own country. Obviously. I have the opposite problem, since I already live in the source language country... 
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Jessie LN
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:11
Spanish to English
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I agree with watching TV online (something I try to do regularly but I can never find Spanish shows that I really enjoy) and trying to find Spanish speakers in your area. For a year, I volunteered alongside a native speaker in a children's Spanish class - this meant I got to practise regularly and meet a 'local native' too. If you can find any source-language music that you enjoy, that's always a plus as well.
I'd also recommend seeing if your local university/college/language schoo... See more I agree with watching TV online (something I try to do regularly but I can never find Spanish shows that I really enjoy) and trying to find Spanish speakers in your area. For a year, I volunteered alongside a native speaker in a children's Spanish class - this meant I got to practise regularly and meet a 'local native' too. If you can find any source-language music that you enjoy, that's always a plus as well.
I'd also recommend seeing if your local university/college/language school runs advanced conversation classes. At this level, the classes are normally held entirely in the language being learnt and although the only native in the room will be the teacher, it's a good way to get back into the swing of the language and resolve any niggling grammar worries.
Would disappearing to a source-language country for one or two weeks a year be feasible for you? You could go over to do short courses (of any type) or a language course. ▲ Collapse
| | | | DS Trans
United States
Local time: 00:11
French to English
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| It takes work | Oct 8, 2013 |
I think it's pretty easy these days to have the opportunity to listen to the radio and watch TV from all around the world, which is great for keeping up comprehension. I had gotten the VPN changer to be able to watch TV in other countries, but am thinking of cancelling because there is so little of interest. I think Youtube is great for watching programs in other languages though - there are really tons of interesting things to watch (especially if Brazilian novelas are a guilty pleasure). ... See more I think it's pretty easy these days to have the opportunity to listen to the radio and watch TV from all around the world, which is great for keeping up comprehension. I had gotten the VPN changer to be able to watch TV in other countries, but am thinking of cancelling because there is so little of interest. I think Youtube is great for watching programs in other languages though - there are really tons of interesting things to watch (especially if Brazilian novelas are a guilty pleasure).
I'm lucky to live in a city full of people from all over the world, but still I only use 2 of my languages on a pretty regular basis in conversation. But even with those, I feel that my accent has suffered and will become much stronger when I'm tired if I don't make a conscious effort.
I'm kind of anal about this kind of thing, so if I'm watching or listening to a program in English, I try to do a simultaneous interpretation into another language, and keep a list of the words I stumble over. I can transfer the list to a reader and review while I'm out. Still nothing beats living where you need to speak all the time. I have one additional language that I have put on the backburner. It's the language of my family ironically (Romanian). I love the language, but it's too much to keep up with since those who spoke it have passed away.
[Edited at 2013-10-08 17:36 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jessie LN
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:11
Spanish to English
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Oooh I forgot to mention podcasts! I download a bunch whenever I'm going on a long journey.
I don't know about other languages, but there are a bunch of Spanish ones here: http://www.ivoox.com and at http://www.rtve.es/radio. I also occasionally listen to audiobooks in Spanish... See more Oooh I forgot to mention podcasts! I download a bunch whenever I'm going on a long journey.
I don't know about other languages, but there are a bunch of Spanish ones here: http://www.ivoox.com and at http://www.rtve.es/radio. I also occasionally listen to audiobooks in Spanish from this website: http://albalearning.com/audiolibros.
But of course, this is only one side of the solution - it's always useful to find someone to talk to as well. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It's definitely worth the effort | Oct 8, 2013 |
I find when I am reviewing other people's work that they don't always catch the little colloquial phrases or recognise completely normal expressions that you can't look up in a dictionary.
Danish seems to have a lot of homonyms and composite or separable verbs - and if you look up the elements but don't understand the composite whole (which is NOT the sum of the parts...), then the Danish can sound quite peculiar or even incomprehensible. It is easy to see why they are mistranslated... See more I find when I am reviewing other people's work that they don't always catch the little colloquial phrases or recognise completely normal expressions that you can't look up in a dictionary.
Danish seems to have a lot of homonyms and composite or separable verbs - and if you look up the elements but don't understand the composite whole (which is NOT the sum of the parts...), then the Danish can sound quite peculiar or even incomprehensible. It is easy to see why they are mistranslated, but hearing and speaking the language helps to avoid that kind of error.
Examples are untranslatable, but there are certainly equivalents or other pitfalls in most languages.
Even though you never do it for clients, translating into your source language(s) for private purposes or just for practice is a very healthy exercise.
Expats can usually find some expression in their own language, provided they understand the source correctly. As long as you render the meaning correctly, it is not quite so serious if the style or register is a bit dated... though it is quite another struggle to keep that up! Says she, looking forward to a visit to the UK soon.
My husband is listening to German on TV right now, but in Scandinavia TV is a source of English of all kinds too...
[Edited at 2013-10-09 14:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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xxLecraxx (X)
Germany
Local time: 06:11
French to German
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| podcasts, TV, audiobooks, shadowing | Oct 9, 2013 |
There are many translators who aren't fluent at all in their source language(s). A great many are not able to produce a correct and natural sounding written sentence in their source language either, even very experienced, established translators. No big deal, in my opinion, as long as you're not interpreting or translating into the language. (Do you think the EU translators who sometimes translate from as many as eight languages actively master al... See more There are many translators who aren't fluent at all in their source language(s). A great many are not able to produce a correct and natural sounding written sentence in their source language either, even very experienced, established translators. No big deal, in my opinion, as long as you're not interpreting or translating into the language. (Do you think the EU translators who sometimes translate from as many as eight languages actively master all their source languages to perfection? ...) But you must be able to thoroughly understand your source language(s), and this very grasp of the language has to be actively maintained if you're not living in the country where the language is spoken. A very good means to achieve this is the regular ingestion of media in the language, especially audio material such as podcasts or radio programs. Regular "aural exercises" improve the active output as well. But in order to really become a proficient speaker of the language, one has to speak. A lot.
Some find an exercise called shadowing (listening to a recording in the language and parroting what is being said at almost the same time while trying to imitate the intonation) to be helpful in order to overcome a psychological blockade to speak or to dedust existing language proficiency. It has to be done on a regular basis, though, and can be quite exhausting. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jessie LN
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:11
Spanish to English
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Marcel G. wrote:
There are many translators who aren't fluent at all in their source language(s). A great many are not able to produce a correct and natural sounding written sentence in their source language either, even very experienced, established translators. No big deal, in my opinion, as long as you're not interpreting or translating into the language.
While it is possible to translate from a language that you can't speak or write fluently, this makes it easier to miss nuances, common idiomatic phrases, everyday colloquialisms, etc. as Christine also points out. Although I can read Portuguese perfectly well, I don't currently claim it as a source language simply because my productive and listening skills are not what they once were. I'd feel like a fraud! I translated a Catalan text once (pro-bono) simply because the organisation couldn't find anyone else to do it - although I had studied the language for a year, I felt like I was mostly using my knowledge of Spanish to decipher it, rather than having a separate, in-depth knowledge of Catalan. Never again.
[Edited at 2013-10-09 11:28 GMT]
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 06:11
French to German
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Marcel G. wrote:
There are many translators who aren't fluent at all in their source language(s). A great many are not able to produce a correct and natural sounding written sentence in their source language either, even very experienced, established translators. No big deal, in my opinion, as long as you're not interpreting or translating into the language. (Do you think the EU translators who sometimes translate from as many as eight languages actively master all their source languages to perfection? ...) But you must be able to thoroughly understand your source language(s), and this very grasp of the language has to be actively maintained if you're not living in the country where the language is spoken.
Agree. Isn't the main point for translators to be able to understand their source language(s)?
As long as you're able to understand nuances, idiomatic phrases etc. in your source language and are able to render these appropriately in your target language I don't see any problem. I think being not so fluent when speaking or writing your source language(s) is not as bad as neglecting your writing skills in your (native) target language.
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Ben Harrison wrote:
For those who don't live in their source-language country or who has more than one source language, how do you keep up the fluency in the spoken language? For example, I translate Spanish on a regular basis so obviously have contact with the written language, but especially considering I translate some quite specialised topics and live in an area with next to no Spanish speakers I find when I actually speak the language I sometimes end up stumbling over quite basic general vocabulary - which makes it quite embarrassing considering I work with the language for a living and am supposed to be the expert!
I know we translators don't necessarily *need* to be proficient speakers of the source languages we use, but it seems a shame to let our hard-earned spoken fluency go to waste. How do other people deal with this problem?
I sort of keep up the cadence and stress and all by reading and writing a lot, which often also involves verbal thoughts goinng through my head, so it's not as bad as you could imagine if you knew how little I actually speak English aloud, which is sort of like once or twice a year. I do need a warm-up before I can deliver a reasonably non-foreign-sounding presentation, though. I stressed so much before the last two I tried to have this autumn.
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Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 00:11
Spanish to English
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| Expressive mastery of the source language *not* a *sine qua non* | Oct 9, 2013 |
inkweaver wrote:
As long as you're able to understand nuances, idiomatic phrases etc. in your source language and are able to render these appropriately in your target language I don't see any problem. I think being not so fluent when speaking or writing your source language(s) is not as bad as neglecting your writing skills in your (native) target language.
I agree. Mastery--in terms of both comprehension and expression--of one's native (i.e., target) language is essential to being an excellent translator. A high level of comprehension of the source language is also--obviously!--essential. But insistence on both a receptive and expressive mastery of the source language as professional requisites results in the absurd banishment some of the all-time greats from the guild. After all, Edward FitzGerald, W.H. Auden, and St Jerome do not appear to have been fluent speakers of Persian, Swedish, and Hebrew respectively.
[Edited at 2013-10-09 17:48 GMT]
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