| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Are these rates real?! Thread poster: Dimitrije Janic
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Though we work with very different language combinations my standard rates are very similar to yours (with the exception of two long-standing customers I still charge 0.10€/word). Lately (last 5 years or so) I have been feeling the pressure to lower my rates (one of these days I will be offered what I charged some 20 years ago!) from some potential clients to what I always say: “Thank you, but no thank you!”. Fortunately I have a solid client’s base…
P.S. I don't do MT po... See more Though we work with very different language combinations my standard rates are very similar to yours (with the exception of two long-standing customers I still charge 0.10€/word). Lately (last 5 years or so) I have been feeling the pressure to lower my rates (one of these days I will be offered what I charged some 20 years ago!) from some potential clients to what I always say: “Thank you, but no thank you!”. Fortunately I have a solid client’s base…
P.S. I don't do MT post-editing and/or MT light review and I always charge revision by the hour. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Forstag 
United States
Local time: 11:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
| False pretenses | Mar 22, 2022 |
Tom in London wrote:
I only ever do translation. The rate is much too low unless the documents are full of repetitions that can be handled by a CAT tool.
I also now tend to shy away from any kind of job characterized as "proofreading."
In my experience (including most especially my recent experience of the past 3-5 years) it has been very rare indeed for any "proofreading" job I've been offered to live up to its label (i.e., the text delivered to me was a professionally done translation with minimal errors).
More often than not, the translation that I've been delivered to be "proofed" has been fundamentally defective. In the worst of cases, it is either a disastrous human translation or primitive machine output.
I also agree with Samuel that it is entirely appropriate to refuse to proceed with a "proofreading" job when the translation to be "proofed" turns out to be dreadful.
| | | | | I didn't realise anyone would care what I had to say to Dimitrije, let alone be upset! | Mar 22, 2022 |
expressisverbis wrote: Korana Lasić wrote: Samuel Murray wrote: Google Translate says that Korana Lasić wrote:
They pay each word or expect more discounts?
It has a calculation that says it's 0.06 in fact 0.08, if you pay every word, and you can still use Trados, and that if we take into account reasonably programmed memory. It can even go out in more than 0.08, if agencies are taken into account, which programs discounts in the robbery. The rest of the church is so I guess they expect you to work for 0.06 on Memsource that will give you half new words to 50% of the price and you still give them fat discounts on every possible bumpers that TM out! Therefore, if you can, tell them no!
EDIT: I don't know how well you know the Cat world, but memsource can be programmed to steal a translator 50% of new words and displays them as "phases" that then pays from 50 to 70% of the new word price! This goes with normal discounts. So you have to be careful when Memsource is a query and otherwise when it comes to discounts. So, when not sure GT guesses based on a similar-sounding word. "Phases" should say fuzzies (spelled phonetically in the source language) and "churches" is a translation of a word that sounds a lot like a diminutive of a church but is definitely a word for a pittance. Not sure how "bumpers" got in there as a translation for "mess", or "poor quality mix" but I thought GT was better at this, at least in my language pair(s) When we are following a thread written in English and everybody understand it it's quite easier, don't you think? Anyway, thank you for explaining to us those mistakes made by GT. Remember me to write you in Portuguese one day. "7 A forum's designated language should be used. A working language is defined for each forum, and this language should be used to the extent possible when posting. Where not otherwise specified, English is the working language." And I have violated rule number 4 right now: "Replies should not stray from the posted topic". My apologies to the OP and to everyone. [Edited at 2022-03-21 22:33 GMT]
My mistake! I hope this fixes things!
They are paying for every word or expect additional discounts?
There’s a calculation that states 0.06 is actually 0.08, if they pay you for every word and you can still use Trados and this is if we take into account reasonably programmed TMs. It can even come up to more than 0.08, if the agencies that program in the discounts in a ripoff way are taken into account. The rest of what they offer is a pittance, so, let me guess, they expect you to work for 0.06 on Memsource, that will then calculate half of the new words at 50% of the price, and give them hefty discounts on every possible mess that the TM spits out? Therefore, if you can at all afford to, tell them no!
Edit: I don't know how well you know the CAT world, but Memsource can be programmed to basically steal 50% of the new words from a translator and show them as fuzzies which agencies then pay 50 to 70% of the price of a new word! This is in addition to the "normal" fuzzy match discounts. This means that you must be careful when it comes to Memsource and when it comes to discounts in general.
I just realised that you are new to the site. Look, you won't get 0.12 because our folks are happy to work for a pittance and there are a lot of people in our language pairs who work for 0.03-0.04 EUR or even 0.2 USD, but (I don't know about Slovenian) you don't have to work in ENSR for less than 0.08-0.10 EUR with discounts, you just need to negotiate, which means you must be prepared to pass up on the jobs that are poorly paid. At the end of the day it evens out, working for a pittance but more projects, or working for a more reasonable rate but fewer projects a year.
@Dimitrije Nema na čemu! Dobrodošao na sajt!
(No worries! Welcome to the site!)
| | | | | Welcome to proz.com, Anne-Sophie! | Mar 22, 2022 |
Anne-Sophie Fradier wrote: Michael Newton wrote:
These rates are slave labor and target the very desperate and the extremely vulnerable. The agency most likely requires a CAT tool as well. If you accept these rates, good luck getting paid. I'm neither desperate nor vulnerable, and I get paid promptly and regularly by lovely, profesionnal people with these rates exactly. The thing is, how much can you translate comfortably in one hour? Does your field require a lot of research? What volume do they assign to you each month? It's a matter of balance, and my balance suits me well. I bought an appartment in Paris with these rates so I'm quite satisfied 
You've given me food for thought!
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 16:01
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Not upset, Korana. | Mar 22, 2022 |
Korana Lasić wrote:
My mistake! I hope this fixes things!
They are paying for every word or expect additional discounts?
There’s a calculation that states 0.06 is actually 0.08, if they pay you for every word and you can still use Trados and this is if we take into account reasonably programmed TMs. It can even come up to more than 0.08, if the agencies that program in the discounts in a ripoff way are taken into account. The rest of what they offer is a pittance, so, let me guess, they expect you to work for 0.06 on Memsource, that will then calculate half of the new words at 50% of the price, and give them hefty discounts on every possible mess that the TM spits out? Therefore, if you can at all afford to, tell them no!
Edit: I don't know how well you know the CAT world, but Memsource can be programmed to basically steal 50% of the new words from a translator and show them as fuzzies which agencies then pay 50 to 70% of the price of a new word! This is in addition to the "normal" fuzzy match discounts. This means that you must be careful when it comes to Memsource and when it comes to discounts in general.
I just realised that you are new to the site. Look, you won't get 0.12 because our folks are happy to work for a pittance and there are a lot of people in our language pairs who work for 0.03-0.04 EUR or even 0.2 USD, but (I don't know about Slovenian) you don't have to work in ENSR for less than 0.08-0.10 EUR with discounts, you just need to negotiate, which means you must be prepared to pass up on the jobs that are poorly paid. At the end of the day it evens out, working for a pittance but more projects, or working for a more reasonable rate but fewer projects a year.
@Dimitrije Nema na čemu! Dobrodošao na sajt!
(No worries! Welcome to the site!)
No, not upset.
If I convey a message in a common language that everyone understands I'm showing consideration for my interlocutors and avoiding any communication barriers.
Thank you for your time and consideration to translate what you wrote in your native language.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 11:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Hard to see how this could be sustainable in the long term | Mar 22, 2022 |
Dimitrije Janic wrote:
Hello guys,
Are these rates normal in your opinion?
Those rates were clients suggestion. Almost 50% of my usual rates.
Manual (classic) translation: 0,060 €/word
{...}
Just taking this (relatively) high rate for "classic" translation, one would have to translate 4000 words a day to earn 240 euros (US$265.00). This assumes a rather brisk pace of 500 words an hour over an eight-hour day. More realistically (since even the most diligent translators need to take short breaks, and/or will get distracted from time to time by any number of things), nine or ten hours will likely be needed to reach this goal.
If a translator maintains such a pace (i.e., realistically, working 10-hour days for their 240 euros) over the course of a month, assuming a five-day work week, they could then earn about 5200 euros (pre-tax).
So theoretically, it is possible to make a fairly good living from 6 euro cents a word. But to make this work in practical terms, a translator would have to:
1. Rely on a constant supply of work at that rate.
2. Work only on material they feel extremely comfortable with (so next to no term research needed, and they basically translate just as fast as they can type).
3. Have clients obliging enough to offer projects that do not involve other complications that tend to slow things down (e.g., formatting tables, handwritten text).
4. Have the stamina to work solid 8-10 hour days, day after day, month after month, without taking more than short breaks for essential life needs.
5. Have a lifestyle largely free of outside obligations.
So it certainly can work. But it is also easy to see how susceptible such a work plan is to any number of problems that can rear their head at any moment (e.g., projects that can't be knocked off quickly, reduced flow of offers, outright loss of client[s], unavoidable outside obligations, or simply burnout).
All this doesn't even take into account the possibility that the rates offered for abundant work on "classic" translations might become even lower than the 6 euro cents we are talking about (a very realistic prospect, given trends over the past 5-10 years).
For all these reasons, I find it hard to see such a rate as sustainable over the long term for most translators living in the developed world.
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 17:01
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| You're all silly | Mar 22, 2022 |
When the internet started to gain momentum, I created a website to offer translation services. I had been a copywriter in the real world and knew something about real-world hourly tariffs. I checked out the competition online and discovered that not even one translation agency wanted to be clear about costs. I had nothing to lose and decided that publishing my tariffs on the internet would be my USP.
Now, two decades later, I’m still clear about my rates but I never discuss them i... See more When the internet started to gain momentum, I created a website to offer translation services. I had been a copywriter in the real world and knew something about real-world hourly tariffs. I checked out the competition online and discovered that not even one translation agency wanted to be clear about costs. I had nothing to lose and decided that publishing my tariffs on the internet would be my USP.
Now, two decades later, I’m still clear about my rates but I never discuss them in public. Some translators like to compare themselves to lawyers, others to plumbers, but both those professions have in common that they don’t publicly discuss their rates, let alone their lowest rates. Do the people over here really think that only peers are reading them?
Cheers,
Gerard ▲ Collapse
| | | | AnnaSCHTR
United States
Local time: 10:01
English to Czech
+ ...
| Agree with Gerard | Mar 22, 2022 |
Translators like to talk about being independent business owners but, sadly, have somewhat peculiar ideas about running a business of any kind. Mentioning specific rates is not a good thing.
Also, people are not always entirely honest. I encountered translators in my language pairs talking all over the world about never working for less than xxxxx (insert a fairy-tale amount here) and sneering at everyone who dares to charge less, even calling them traitors to our profession.
... See more Translators like to talk about being independent business owners but, sadly, have somewhat peculiar ideas about running a business of any kind. Mentioning specific rates is not a good thing.
Also, people are not always entirely honest. I encountered translators in my language pairs talking all over the world about never working for less than xxxxx (insert a fairy-tale amount here) and sneering at everyone who dares to charge less, even calling them traitors to our profession.
And then I see the same people accepting projects for a fraction of that rate (and doing a very bad job, I may add). So... these discussions don't lead anywhere, sorry. ▲ Collapse
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | it depends on different aspects. | Mar 23, 2022 |
One aspect has not been considered here: language combination.
There are language combinations that are extremely "common", in this case a huge number of people, who consider a translation as a hobby, drastically lower the rates.
English>Italian is an example, and the same applies (in my experience) to EN>ES, EN>FR.
Other languages are definitely less common, and rates are obviously higher.
So, those rates can be considered as real in some case.
And yes, as someone ... See more One aspect has not been considered here: language combination.
There are language combinations that are extremely "common", in this case a huge number of people, who consider a translation as a hobby, drastically lower the rates.
English>Italian is an example, and the same applies (in my experience) to EN>ES, EN>FR.
Other languages are definitely less common, and rates are obviously higher.
So, those rates can be considered as real in some case.
And yes, as someone said: you need a constant workflow, you need to translate things you are very comfortable with, you need everything to go as smooth as possible.
On the other side, when you consider accepting rates or a new client, other aspects should be taken in account: payment terms, workflow, formatting and other "technical" issues that could slower the translation process...
But, again, Japanese - Spanish, Chinese - German (for example) will always offer better rates than English - Italian, English - Spanish
Then, also the fields should be considered: highly technical translations will have better rates than general translations.
So please, when you reply: I would never work for those rates (and, believe, that sounds like "if you work at these rates you must be stupid"), try walking in someone else's shoes for a while. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 11:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Well, word gets around | Mar 23, 2022 |
Gerard de Noord wrote:
When the internet started to gain momentum....
Not really sure of the point of this post. The "going rate" for this or that language combination paid by agencies quickly gets around. In the end, agencies do propose concrete rates to translators. And then people share information. Secrets are not kept.
Any given translator can certainly remain steadfast and insist on a rate 50%, 100% - hell, even 300% more than the going rate.
Whether this works, is another story....
[Edited at 2022-03-23 12:02 GMT]
| | | | | A quick calculation | Mar 23, 2022 |
A quick calculation for a translator based in France under the "micro-entrepreneur" status (taxes+social contributions = 25% of total turnover), translating 2400 words a day, working 22 days a month:
2400*0.06*22*0.75 = 2376 euros (net!). That's a very comfortable salary, especially when you work from home and don't have commuting costs.
So YES, you can absolutely make a good living with those rates.
Ps: I don't accept jobs at those rates.
[Edited at... See more A quick calculation for a translator based in France under the "micro-entrepreneur" status (taxes+social contributions = 25% of total turnover), translating 2400 words a day, working 22 days a month:
2400*0.06*22*0.75 = 2376 euros (net!). That's a very comfortable salary, especially when you work from home and don't have commuting costs.
So YES, you can absolutely make a good living with those rates.
Ps: I don't accept jobs at those rates.
[Edited at 2022-03-23 19:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 11:01
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Dimitrije Janic wrote:
Hello guys,
Are these rates normal in your opinion?
Those rates were clients suggestion. Almost 50% of my usual rates.
Manual (classic) translation: 0,060 €/word
MT post-editing: 0,040 €/word
Revision: 0,025 €/word
MT light review: 0,025 €/word
Proofreading: 0,010€/word
What is the rationale behind publishing this kind of post? Your post could become a guidance to the bottom feeders.
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 18:01
English to Romanian
| Would be, for me. | Mar 23, 2022 |
Dimitrije Janic wrote:
Manual (classic) translation: 0,060 €/word
MT post-editing: 0,040 €/word
Revision: 0,025 €/word
MT light review: 0,025 €/word
Proofreading: 0,010€/word
I've NEVER been offered 0.06 €/word for my language combination. Half of that is my reality. For years. I was told it is enough for my country.
[Edited at 2022-03-23 18:48 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Are these rates real?! | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
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