| Lapas par tematu: [1 2 3 4 5] > | Job ads specifying female interpreters Tēmas autors: philgoddard
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A company in Italy has recently posted two job ads on PRoZ for female interpreters. The most recent may have disappeared by the time you read this, as I've reported it, but it says that applicants must have a "pleasant presence", ie be goodlooking.
Do you find this as offensive as I do?
[Edited at 2013-09-05 14:04 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-09-05 14:05 GMT]
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How exactly is this offensive?
| | | | Henry Hinds 
ASV
Local time: 00:59
angļu - spāņu
+ ...
In memoriam
They must have good reasons for that requirement.
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Maybe it's acceptable in Russia, but in most of the western world (including Texas) it's not only offensive but illegal to discriminate in this way. And the staff of ProZ obviously agree, because they've deleted it.
[Edited at 2013-09-05 00:36 GMT]
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| Agree with Phil | Sep 5, 2013 |
I agree that it's offensive. It's gender discrimination, in case you didn't notice.
| | | | | Some jobs require female, and some jobs require presentable interpreters | Sep 5, 2013 |
Female interpreters may be preferable or even necessary where the presence of a male interpreter would be inconvenient. I do believe that avoiding even the slightest inconvenience in a speaker or audience is more important than promoting equal opportunity.
I also believe that clients have the right to prefer or even require a certain degree of presentability in their interpreters even for simple polite company, let alone conference interpreting or anything more sensitive. Plus, whil... See more Female interpreters may be preferable or even necessary where the presence of a male interpreter would be inconvenient. I do believe that avoiding even the slightest inconvenience in a speaker or audience is more important than promoting equal opportunity.
I also believe that clients have the right to prefer or even require a certain degree of presentability in their interpreters even for simple polite company, let alone conference interpreting or anything more sensitive. Plus, while I'm not pleased when interpreters are hired to be furniture or decoration, I think it would be vaguely okay in certain promotional activities. Well, at least if it didn't include anything sexually suggestive.
[Edited at 2013-09-05 02:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | a little bit of American hypocrisy | Sep 5, 2013 |
[quote]philgoddard wrote:
Maybe it's acceptable in Russia, but in most of the western world (including Texas) it's not only offensive but illegal to discriminate in this way.
OK. According to this concept:
- it is OK to have a male interpreter at a female detention center during the mandatory intake strip search
- it is OK to have a male interpreter during a GYN medical exam
- it is OK to have a male interpreter in the delivery room etc.
A couple years ago I was turned down to interpret for the Romanian Miss Universe
contestant in Brasil because they accepted only female interpreters: Ok with me.
For the rest, Lukasz said it better.
Lee
| | | | ATIL KAYHAN
Turcija
Local time: 09:59
Biedrs (kopš 2007)
turku - angļu
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| Sexual Discrimination or Not? | Sep 5, 2013 |
Unfortunately, there are no universally accepted rules for sexual discrimination. For example, it is definitely considered a sexual discrimination in the United States to explicitly specify sex of the applicant in the job ads. In Turkey, however, this is not so. Job ads are full of statements specifying sex (e.g. female interpreter required, etc.) in Turkey. I know this is frustrating but I do not know how to solve this dilemna other than saying that it is a cultural difference. Any suggest... See more Unfortunately, there are no universally accepted rules for sexual discrimination. For example, it is definitely considered a sexual discrimination in the United States to explicitly specify sex of the applicant in the job ads. In Turkey, however, this is not so. Job ads are full of statements specifying sex (e.g. female interpreter required, etc.) in Turkey. I know this is frustrating but I do not know how to solve this dilemna other than saying that it is a cultural difference. Any suggestions will be welcome. ▲ Collapse
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| Yes and as the poster is in Italy | Sep 5, 2013 |
Martina Fink wrote:
I agree that it's offensive. It's gender discrimination, in case you didn't notice.
Where gender discrimination is forbidden, that law applies to them.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Nīderlande
Local time: 08:59
Biedrs (kopš 2006)
angļu - afrikandu
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| Gender and presentation in in-person services | Sep 5, 2013 |
philgoddard wrote:
A company in Italy called Studio Moretto has recently posted two job ads for female interpreters. The most recent may have disappeared by the time you read this, as I've reported it, but it says that applicants must have a "pleasant presence", ie be goodlooking.
It may be that "pleasant presence" is a euphemism for "good-looking", but if the client behaves professionally it may actually mean exactly what it says, i.e. the person's dress and grooming must be suitable for the occassion and she must not have mannerisms that result in unnecessary tension. Some [particularly young] job seekers don't have a sense of propriety.
As for the gender, there are valid situations which the gender of the interpreter matters. In police interpreting, particularly when interpreting for victims of assault crimes, gender really matters. I do believe, however, that the jobs poster should mention what the reason is.
In fact, I think one can take the gender discrimination thing too far. If a profession has no barriers of entry for either gender and if both genders can get work in that professional easily, then I see no valid reason why clients should not be allowed to specify their gender preference, even for jobs that don't involve personal contact. The reason for gender discrimination laws is to ensure that both genders get a fair chance at working in that industry, and in industries where such "equality" does not yet exist, gender discriminations laws must be enforced strictly. However, once the balance is established, discrimination laws have no further use (unless the imbalance returns eventually).
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So, if for strictly professional purposes I decided to hire an interpreter with my *private* money, could someone sue me because I prefer a female professional instead of a male one, or the opposite for that matter? To whom should I be expected to justify my choice? Would I lose the case if brought to Court? Just curious to know in which country this could happen.
Isn't this one of the excesses of the so-called politically correctness?
[Edited at 2013-09-05 07:46 GM... See more So, if for strictly professional purposes I decided to hire an interpreter with my *private* money, could someone sue me because I prefer a female professional instead of a male one, or the opposite for that matter? To whom should I be expected to justify my choice? Would I lose the case if brought to Court? Just curious to know in which country this could happen.
Isn't this one of the excesses of the so-called politically correctness?
[Edited at 2013-09-05 07:46 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-09-05 07:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ania Heasley
Apvienotā Karaliste
Local time: 07:59
angļu - poļu
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| End client preferences? | Sep 5, 2013 |
Please do not go into PC-overdrive here.
Sometimes the end client (i.e. the person who requires an interpreter) requests a female interpreter, the same way they might request a female doctor while booking a sensitive medical appointment, as they feel more comfortable with a female only team of professionals.
There are several jobs where the end client has a gender preference (care assistants, nurses) and if an employer does not make this clear, they are wasting the ap... See more Please do not go into PC-overdrive here.
Sometimes the end client (i.e. the person who requires an interpreter) requests a female interpreter, the same way they might request a female doctor while booking a sensitive medical appointment, as they feel more comfortable with a female only team of professionals.
There are several jobs where the end client has a gender preference (care assistants, nurses) and if an employer does not make this clear, they are wasting the applicants' time, as the end client will only consider applications from the preferred gender. Isn't it better to be honest about it rather than raise hopes of the 'wrong' gender candidates by ommitting this piece of information from the advert? ▲ Collapse
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ATIL KAYHAN
Turcija
Local time: 09:59
Biedrs (kopš 2007)
turku - angļu
+ ...
Mario Cerutti wrote:
So, if for strictly professional purposes I decided to hire an interpreter with my *private* money, could someone sue me because I prefer a female professional instead of a male one, or the opposite for that matter? To whom should I be expected to justify my choice? Would I lose the case if brought to Court? Just curious to know in which country this could happen.
Isn't this one of the excesses of the so-called politically correctness?
[Edited at 2013-09-05 07:46 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-09-05 07:48 GMT]
They could sue you but they would probably lose the case. You would tell them that you preferred this particular candidate due to her (his) language skills, and not her (his) gender. You would probably convince them about it with details. We are assuming here that your job ad did not mention gender at all. So, it all depends upon how you defend the case.
| | | | Kay Denney
Francija
Local time: 08:59
franču - angļu
| interpreters should be discreet not pretty | Sep 5, 2013 |
Of course gender may be of the utmost importance, mostly in cases where women need protection, although I can quite well imagine that a man needing his private parts examined may not welcome the presence of a woman and I would understand that perfectly.
I would say that it's the requirement for a "pleasant presence" which is offensive. Any professional interpreter would surely dress appropriately for whichever event they are working at. Mostly, "appropriate" means a style that doe... See more Of course gender may be of the utmost importance, mostly in cases where women need protection, although I can quite well imagine that a man needing his private parts examined may not welcome the presence of a woman and I would understand that perfectly.
I would say that it's the requirement for a "pleasant presence" which is offensive. Any professional interpreter would surely dress appropriately for whichever event they are working at. Mostly, "appropriate" means a style that does not attract attention in any way, since the best interpreter is the one who enables smooth communication as discreetly as possible. ▲ Collapse
| | | | LEXpert
ASV
Local time: 01:59
Biedrs (kopš 2008)
horvātu - angļu
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| @Lee - Yes, it is OK, actually | Sep 5, 2013 |
lee roth wrote:
philgoddard wrote:
Maybe it's acceptable in Russia, but in most of the western world (including Texas) it's not only offensive but illegal to discriminate in this way.
OK. According to this concept:
- it is OK to have a male interpreter at a female detention center during the mandatory intake strip search
- it is OK to have a male interpreter during a GYN medical exam
- it is OK to have a male interpreter in the delivery room etc.
A couple years ago I was turned down to interpret for the Romanian Miss Universe
contestant in Brasil because they accepted only female interpreters: Ok with me.
For the rest, Lukasz said it better.
Lee
You're undermining your own argument here. If men can be competent - even expert - gynecologists, obstetricians and OB nurses, and work as corrections officers in women's prisons (all which is true), why on Earth couldn't a male interpreter work effectively in these circumstances? What's the difference?
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