| Lapas par tematu: < [1 2] | Test translation: yes or no? Tēmas autors: Elke Fehling
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Just did a test translation (about 200 words) and was emailed couple days later, that they liked it very much, considered it of excellent quality, but my rate was too high for this particular project. They asked to send my resume, so I can be added to their list for future jobs. So I emailed my resume with a letter saying we can negotiate rates for future jobs, the bigger the job, the lower my rate. Talking about rates, I was out of translating for couple years (family reasons) and now came back... See more Just did a test translation (about 200 words) and was emailed couple days later, that they liked it very much, considered it of excellent quality, but my rate was too high for this particular project. They asked to send my resume, so I can be added to their list for future jobs. So I emailed my resume with a letter saying we can negotiate rates for future jobs, the bigger the job, the lower my rate. Talking about rates, I was out of translating for couple years (family reasons) and now came back to be shocked! The usual common rate of $0.12-0.15 became half, thanks to all the Eastern Europeans in the field now, willing to work for peanuts!
Just had to vent a lil:) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Regarding tests | Dec 19, 2003 |
I just have a question for you all (especially those who told they refuse to do tests!) - how in the world do you ever get any translation assignments, if you don't do tests...?? I have so far never come across an agency who would NOT have required (yes, required, it's not optional) a test translation to start with!! I thought such agencies don't exist, it seems to be the standard procedure everywhere... But as some of you do seem to have the luxury to actually refuse from doing tests, I guess ... See more I just have a question for you all (especially those who told they refuse to do tests!) - how in the world do you ever get any translation assignments, if you don't do tests...?? I have so far never come across an agency who would NOT have required (yes, required, it's not optional) a test translation to start with!! I thought such agencies don't exist, it seems to be the standard procedure everywhere... But as some of you do seem to have the luxury to actually refuse from doing tests, I guess such agencies have to exist somewhere..? (Well, I'm only a beginner, but anyway...) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elke Fehling 
Local time: 08:17
Biedrs (kopš 2005)
angļu - vācu
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TOPIC STARTER | If a translation is urgently needed, there is no time for a test translation | Dec 19, 2003 |
Up to now I have never done any test translations. Usually the translation agency contacts me because they urgently need a translator. They don\'t really have enough time to send me a test transaltion and evaluate the results. They just send the job and if they (and the client) are satisfied the keep on sending jobs.
This happend to me several times, and it worked out fine for me.
Elke
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 08:17
vācu - angļu
+ ...
| How in the world... | Dec 19, 2003 |
Heli Kajander wrote:
I just have a question for you all (especially those who told they refuse to do tests!) - how in the world do you ever get any translation assignments, if you don't do tests...??
If you have appropriate qualifications and experience, why should you need to take a test? I don't ask my doctor, solicitor or plumber to take tests.
It's difficult to say why the practice is so common in the translation profession. One reason is perhaps that there are a great many translators (or would-be translators) who don't have the necessary qualifications and experience and are patently not ready for self-employment; many of them perhaps do feel that they need to "prove" themselves to an agency.
Equally, there is some very good talent among those fledgeling translators, and if an agency is willing to look for it and nurture it, it may find a very good translator willing to work cheap - an arrangement that satisfies both sides.
I also believe that many agencies like to regard themselves as the skill centre, and the translator's work as merely a subordinate activity. Requiring tests reinforces this notion on both sides. Having said that, some agencies really are skill centres, so it's dangerous, not to say unfair, to generalize. But from my experience, the agencies asking for a test have been the very ones who did not possess the expertise to assess it. There have been one or two notable exceptions.
I have done at most five tests in the last ten years. (I can only actually recall three unpaid ones.) These were generally as a favour to an agency with which I already had a good working relationship, and the agency used the test as a sample for an end customer in order to win an order which it then passed on to me.
I have never done a test "on spec", nor a test where I have been in competition with another translator. Tests of this kind are a total and utter waste of time. Agencies who are really interested in finding competent translators look at such things as qualifications (general language, translation-specific and subject-specific), periods of residence abroad, bilingual background, years of experience (and not just as a freelance), samples of previous work, references, membership of professional associations, and other factors. Negative factors are almost as telling as positive ones: absence of any clear specialism, claims to translate anything and everything, and to work into languages for which the translator obviously has sub-native ability. To ask for a test before looking closely at other indicators is just plain silly.
I have so far never come across an agency who would NOT have required (yes, required, it's not optional)
Hm, I wonder what my dentist will say when I tell him not only that I want a test filling, but that it isn't optional! On second thoughts, I'm terrified enough of his drill as it is - someone else can try that one. (Yes, I know this joke has been cracked before.)
I thought such agencies don't exist, it seems to be the standard procedure everywhere...
Based on what experience? I must have worked for over two dozen agencies, but I've never done an on-spec test. Admittedly, I seldom approach agencies on spec either, but on the rare occasions I have, I've never been asked to take a test. It's the agencies who approach me who expect a test.
(Well, I'm only a beginner, but anyway...)
That says it all, doesn't it? If I ask my dentist for a test filling, and he says "Well, I'm only a beginner, but anyway...," I'm outta his surgery REALLY fast, believe me.
Marc
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| Translators as writers | Dec 20, 2003 |
I did chuckle with the analogies of our work with taxi drivers, pilots, or dentists. However, joshing aside, I suggest that we remember that we are a type of writer, specializing in communicating ideas through words. This can be done well, middling, or poorly. Other types of writers, such as journalists, fiction authors, science writers, etc., routinely submit samples of their work in order to get jobs, or else they already have enough exposure that others seek them out on the basis of having ... See more I did chuckle with the analogies of our work with taxi drivers, pilots, or dentists. However, joshing aside, I suggest that we remember that we are a type of writer, specializing in communicating ideas through words. This can be done well, middling, or poorly. Other types of writers, such as journalists, fiction authors, science writers, etc., routinely submit samples of their work in order to get jobs, or else they already have enough exposure that others seek them out on the basis of having read their earlier work, which gave a "sampling" of their writing. No publisher is going to publish someone on the basis of his/her resume or CV alone: they want to see how well the writer wields words. One difference between translators and other writers is that much of our work is unpublished, uncited, or confidential, therefore lacking the kind of public exposure that some of the other types of writers get. Recognizing this, the ATA urges people using translators to include their names as a by-line. But until (if ever) translators get the kind of public recognition they deserve, requests for sample translations will be a common occurrence in the profession. I agree that reasonable limits should be placed on the length of sample translations requested by a first-time client or agency, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to make such a request. Many of my clients are people who didnt make such a request of another translator the first time around (often because they had a rush job) and ended up paying for pitiful texts. I am often asked to clean up these so-called translations, rendered by people who claimed expertise in certain subjects and who padded their resumes. Taxi drivers, pilots, and dentists do get tested, i.e., agree to demonstrate a sample of their skills, when they seek government licenses, so the public doesn´t have to ask for "samples." I hope to never see the day that translators have to seek licenses -- I´d much rather enjoy the freedom that comes with being a writer and respond to requests for samples that are sometimes made of me. 
[Edited at 2003-12-21 00:01] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I wouldn't compare a translator to a dentist... | Dec 22, 2003 |
To all of you making such comparisons, I can only echo Steven's words above (as he put it so well):
Steven Sidore wrote:
I'll get to my own policy in a minute, but my problem with the indignant airline pilot and taxi driver analogies is that they aren't analagious situations. You are putting stock in the airline that they will hire competent pilots; you are putting stock in the police that they will yank the hack license of a taxi driver who drivers unsafely. From a company's point of view, hiring an untested freelancer is a big risk, since there's no authority there to give approval.
MarcPrior, you seem to say that as I'm not very experienced, my words don't carry any weight (to you at least)... I truly hope I misread you!
I'm glad some of you have been so lucky as to find agencies who don't require tests at the start - it seems I just have to keep on trying...
(I was talking about tests when the agency is accepting a translator to their database etc., not for a specific job.)
I do have the necessary qualifications, if not experience, but that doesn't seem to be enough...
But probably this discussion was aimed only (or mainly) for already well-established translators (logically, as it was on the 'Being Independent' thread and not the 'Getting Established' one...), sorry for meddling in it, my mistake!!
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 08:17
vācu - angļu
+ ...
| Translators and dentists | Dec 22, 2003 |
Heli,
Heli Kajander wrote:
MarcPrior, you seem to say that as I'm not very experienced, my words don't carry any weight (to you at least)... I truly hope I misread you!
No, I didn't mean that. Though after re-reading your posting, I realize I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying "I'm only a beginner, so I must expect to be tested." Perhaps you meant "I'm only a beginner, so my experience of agencies isn't typical".
Do you feel you can stand behind your work? Is it of an acceptable standard? If so, why do you need to be "tested"?
I agree with most of what Catherine says: anyone can call themselves a translator, so customers do indeed need to be cautious and verify the claims made in some way. I disagree, though, that there is a need for a "test". Catherine herself uses the word "samples". That's fair enough - any potential customer can ask me for samples, and that's what they'll get: samples of past work. There are plenty of other indicators of translator competence.
I do have the necessary qualifications, if not experience, but that doesn't seem to be enough...
What you have to appreciate is that there is a difference between working for an employer and being self-employed. An employer may employ you on the basis of your qualifications alone, but he is then responsible for what you produce.
If you're self-employed, that doesn't apply. Whether you're experienced or not is irrelevant. Only the standard of your work counts, and YOU are responsible for it. The logical conclusion to me is that if you admit yourself that an agency is justified in testing you, you are not confident that you are competent. By the same token, an agency that wishes to test you is challenging your professional competence.
The decision's yours. I'm reluctant to call someone "unprofessional" just because they have hardly any experience. Some inexperienced translators are much better than many time-served colleagues, particularly if they are aware of their limitations and take care not to overstep them (see the discussion of KudoZ that Henry has just closed). On the other hand, if you don't feel confident yet to go it alone (I was nervous enough, even with five years' experience at the time), your only choices are to get some experience in a staff position, or accept that not everyone will take you seriously. And the biggest danger of all is that someone may take you seriously when they should be wary.
That will no doubt upset a lot of people just before Christmas. Beam me up Scotty...
Marc
| | | | | Too busy to do tests . | Feb 12, 2004 |
I am usually too busy with paid projects to do test translations and when I am not there are a 1000 other things to do and I simply forget about them. I did complete one short test here a couple of weeks ago but they never got back to me so I don't think I will bother anymore unless it is a part of the selection process for a specific project.
I share the same experience as other people here that when a translator is urgently required there is no time for evaluating tests. In my experienc... See more I am usually too busy with paid projects to do test translations and when I am not there are a 1000 other things to do and I simply forget about them. I did complete one short test here a couple of weeks ago but they never got back to me so I don't think I will bother anymore unless it is a part of the selection process for a specific project.
I share the same experience as other people here that when a translator is urgently required there is no time for evaluating tests. In my experience tests are usually sent when the client has little or no requirement for that particular language.
And there are decent agencies out there who insist on paying for the test - because the test is actually a small job. ▲ Collapse
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