| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Things go from bad to worse ... Thread poster: Claudio Porcellana (X)
|
|---|
Claudio Porcellana (X) 
Italy
hello
another decent agency of mine switched from Trados to a remote server CAT and far from thinking that I can disagree, I have already given an account and a task to work at ...
GRRRR
well, I'm usually curious and open to new tools, and I consider me open-minded about innovation, but being prone to work on whatever crap tool, especially when this is useful mainly/only to those who propose it, is a completely different question, to me
If anyone stil... See more hello
another decent agency of mine switched from Trados to a remote server CAT and far from thinking that I can disagree, I have already given an account and a task to work at ...
GRRRR
well, I'm usually curious and open to new tools, and I consider me open-minded about innovation, but being prone to work on whatever crap tool, especially when this is useful mainly/only to those who propose it, is a completely different question, to me
If anyone still not considered the question extent, I explain it better:
CATs with remote server memories/glossaries, such as Across, XTM and other similar lark mirrors, serve only/mainly to pull out of our pockets these data, which will then be used internally and/or sold to train MTs, which will be used to "plunder" us even better tomorrow
do you think there is some marketing (?) strategy available to face this issue, as simply remove some decent customers is not what one can light-heartedly do?
Claudio ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 13:28
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
| Depends on how you sell yourself | Oct 19, 2010 |
In my experience the use of CATs saves effort only when updating existing documents by the same author. Even if the subject is the same, if the text comes from another author almost all has to be translated from scratch, except some one-word headings perhaps.
So I do not see any perspective for MT using existing TMs.
If working with remote TMs is more awkward than using our local tools, we should put our rates up accordingly.
Even if I use Trados locally, the cli... See more In my experience the use of CATs saves effort only when updating existing documents by the same author. Even if the subject is the same, if the text comes from another author almost all has to be translated from scratch, except some one-word headings perhaps.
So I do not see any perspective for MT using existing TMs.
If working with remote TMs is more awkward than using our local tools, we should put our rates up accordingly.
Even if I use Trados locally, the client gets the TM and can use it forever.
Regards
Heinrich ▲ Collapse
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X)
Italy
TOPIC STARTER | Depends on how you sell yourself | Oct 19, 2010 |
thanks for your input Heinrich
anyway, giving a copy of your TM to your customer is completely different than loose the control on your TMs working on the client's remote server ...
and about the usefulness of TMs in MT training, do a look here
<... See more thanks for your input Heinrich
anyway, giving a copy of your TM to your customer is completely different than loose the control on your TMs working on the client's remote server ...
and about the usefulness of TMs in MT training, do a look here
https://www.tausdata.org/index.php/visitor-center/translators
to me, TAUS is another way to "steal" ours memories with a lark mirror, not so different from remote CATs ...
Claudio ▲ Collapse
| | | | Romeo Mlinar
Portugal
Local time: 11:28
English to Serbian
+ ...
They are turning us into machines.
In 20 years they'll distribute "CAT brain plug-in". You just "plug it in" into your brain and they feed you with MT, while you mentally check for errors.
Every mistake will be penalized by an electro shock. Payment reduction applied, of course. ... See more
| | |
|
|
|
Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Claudio Porcellana wrote:
CATs with remote server memories/glossaries, such as Across, XTM and other similar lark mirrors, serve only/mainly to pull out of our pockets these data, which will then be used internally and/or sold to train MTs, which will be used to "plunder" us even better tomorrow.
What you describe can also be done with non-server based translation tools. Every time you submit a bilingual file or a TM to an agency, they can add that to a database, and they can do exactly what you mention above.
Even if you never deliver TMs or bilingual files to clients, alignment technology is so good these days that the client can easily just drop in the original file and your translation into the aligner and create a TM or add the translations to a database, and then the situation you describe above can also happen.
So I don't think one can call server-based CAT a bad thing for these specific reasons. If you want to dislike server-based CAT tools, and you want to dislike it for a valid reason, it would have to be a different reason than the above.
| | | | Claudio Porcellana (X)
Italy
TOPIC STARTER | Things go from bad to worse ... | Oct 19, 2010 |
sure Samuel, but with a remote server CAT you don't have ANY memory in your bare hands !
you loose completely the control on your data as you don't have the original and final files in your PC, unless you would loose a lot of time copy-pasting all online TUs just translated, then aligning them to re-have your memory ...
that's very different to me than having data in your PC and sending a copy to your customer
Claudio
[Modificato alle 2010-10-19 13:2... See more sure Samuel, but with a remote server CAT you don't have ANY memory in your bare hands !
you loose completely the control on your data as you don't have the original and final files in your PC, unless you would loose a lot of time copy-pasting all online TUs just translated, then aligning them to re-have your memory ...
that's very different to me than having data in your PC and sending a copy to your customer
Claudio
[Modificato alle 2010-10-19 13:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mr Florida
Local time: 06:28
German to English
+ ...
| You worry too much | Oct 19, 2010 |
I think you are missing some advantages: You are no longer required to deal with anything other than the translation. Multiterm entries missing or incorrect - not my problem. Formatting is off - not my problem. TM fuxored - guess what, not my problem either.
Just make sure you use the "offline" remote client of your software, e.g. CrossWAN Load for Across. Then you simply download the assigned job, don't have to rely on a fast server during your translation work, and voila, deliver ... See more I think you are missing some advantages: You are no longer required to deal with anything other than the translation. Multiterm entries missing or incorrect - not my problem. Formatting is off - not my problem. TM fuxored - guess what, not my problem either.
Just make sure you use the "offline" remote client of your software, e.g. CrossWAN Load for Across. Then you simply download the assigned job, don't have to rely on a fast server during your translation work, and voila, deliver everything at the push of a button.
Personally I don't worry about TM ownership. Most clients have some really weird terminology standards to begin with, and while I have seen some clients try out other translators with the existing TMs and termbases, they are usually back super-quick because the "discount" translators write like first-graders, don't understand the meaning of a 100% match, and of course cannot deliver on time if their lives depended on it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Selcuk Akyuz
Türkiye
Local time: 13:28
English to Turkish
+ ...
| Connection problems | Oct 19, 2010 |
What about internet connection problems? It rained cats and dogs yesterday, there was no connection and I waited 3 hours to send a file. No thanks!
| | |
|
|
|
| Isn't the same as working in the customer premises | Oct 19, 2010 |
sure Samuel, but with a remote server CAT you don't have ANY memory in your bare hands !
you loose completely the control on your data as you don't have the original and final files in your PC, unless you would loose a lot of time copy-pasting all online TUs just translated, then aligning them to re-have your memory ...
that's very different to me than having data in your PC and sending a copy to your customer
Many years ago I had a customer who offered some freelancers the option to work in-house in their own PCs. The rates per word were the same as if you worked at home with your own PC, own TMs, etc.
I have met some freelancers who were quite happy about this. They did not have to buy Trados (nor even a PC) nor any software and they had free IT support from the company staff.
Back them, nobody thought it was a problem that you could not take home "your" files or TMs (which in reality belong to the customer and not to you, don't they).
The server system you are describing is virtually the same thing, isn't it?
Daniel
| | | | | Surcharge for working online in restricted CAT environments | Oct 19, 2010 |
I think this is an important topic - and very relevant in these days where many seem to be focused on bringing everything to the cloud. Thank you for bringing it up, Claudio!
I also work for a client who has started to use an online CAT tool and I clearly see it as a disadvantage since I am not able to easily add the translations I make in that system to my own memories and consequently "loose data" which could help me in relation to future jobs.
As a freelance transla... See more I think this is an important topic - and very relevant in these days where many seem to be focused on bringing everything to the cloud. Thank you for bringing it up, Claudio!
I also work for a client who has started to use an online CAT tool and I clearly see it as a disadvantage since I am not able to easily add the translations I make in that system to my own memories and consequently "loose data" which could help me in relation to future jobs.
As a freelance translator, I see my TMs as valuable assets and use them for concordance searches all the time, So if being forced to work in a certain online system means that I don't have easy access to my own TM and terminology resources and furthermore can't export a project TM or save the bilingual file for my own archives I can only consider it a loss of control like Claudio has pointed out, and in many cases also a loss of productivity and value compared to working offline.
I have raised this issue with the agency and also said that I will have to consider raising my rates due to the mentioned disadvantages. They seem to be working on a solution which would allow the translators to export a bilingual file and that would at least be a step in the right direction...
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
If working with remote TMs is more awkward than using our local tools, we should put our rates up accordingly.
I agree and also think it is important to take into account that the use of some tools basically means that we loose control of our own data assets, which could have served as valuable reference material for future translations.
I am a big fan of CAT tools and other utilities that make our lives easier but not of centralised systems which are only designed to control the data from the agencies' point of view but make the work more cumbersome for the translator and even results in a situation where we can no longer build our own translation memories. I will definitely consider charging a higher price for working in that way and hope I am not the only one who will react in this way to these developments...
[Edited at 2010-10-19 17:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Translator's rights | Oct 19, 2010 |
Daniel García wrote:
Back them, nobody thought it was a problem that you could not take home "your" files or TMs (which in reality belong to the customer and not to you, don't they).
Yes and no. Quoting from Wikipedia article on work for hire:
States that are party to the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works recognize separately copyrights and moral rights. Moral rights include the right of the actual creators to publicly identify themselves as such, and to maintain the integrity of their work.
Unfortunately, it is precisely the integrity of work that is often lost when a ready-to-use TM gets into the hands of a less-than-meticulous client. When the client supplies a TM or a TM-based pretranslation to me, more often than not do I see an indiscriminate mixture of TMs from different translators, both good and bad.
| | | | | Copy + Paste | Oct 19, 2010 |
[quote]Mette Melchior wrote:
I also work for a client who has started to use an online CAT tool and I clearly see it as a disadvantage since I am not able to easily add the translations I make in that system to my own memories and consequently "loose data" which could help me in relation to future jobs.
As a freelance translator, I see my TMs as valuable assets and use them for concordance searches all the time, So if being forced to work in a certain online system means that I don't have easy access to my own TM and terminology resources and furthermore can't export a project TM or save the bilingual file for my own archives I can only consider it a loss of control like Claudio has pointed out, and in many cases also a loss of productivity and value compared to working offline.
A small suggestion: Then you may copy each segment and paste them in a text editor, and align them in an aligner. It may take time, but you save your own TMs.
Regards,
Nahit
| | |
|
|
|
Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:28
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Anton Konashenok wrote:
States that are party to the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works recognize separately copyrights and moral rights. Moral rights include the right of the actual creators to publicly identify themselves as such, and to maintain the integrity of their work.
Unfortunately, it is precisely the integrity of work that is often lost when a ready-to-use TM gets into the hands of a less-than-meticulous client.
No, the "integrity" clause relates to the effect a distortion would have on the author's reputation, and not on any universal integrity of the work. Reuse of TUs in a TM database does not damage the author's reputation because the author is not identified on a per-segment basis.
Independent of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to the said work, which would be prejudicial to the author's honor or reputation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_(copyright_law)
| | | |
My only concern is slow Internet connection speed [and failure] that results in lower translation productivity. I can set a net TM to update my translation through Clean function on the final stage, however.
Soonthon Lupkitaro
| | | | | Re statement about server CAT tool, XTM using customer data - it is false | Nov 8, 2010 |
Hi Claudio and all,
Just wanted to add that XTM International never and in no cases uses customer data whether it is TMs, Terminology or work files, no personal data and no project data is ever taken for other uses. It is the sole owenership of our customer and our subscription agreement details this. We will nevers sell or exchange this data.
Just wanted to add the comment for fairness. If anyone wants proofs I can provide it.
For more information please... See more Hi Claudio and all,
Just wanted to add that XTM International never and in no cases uses customer data whether it is TMs, Terminology or work files, no personal data and no project data is ever taken for other uses. It is the sole owenership of our customer and our subscription agreement details this. We will nevers sell or exchange this data.
Just wanted to add the comment for fairness. If anyone wants proofs I can provide it.
For more information please contact me or see www.xtm-intl.com
Thanks for reading.
Kind regards.
Elliot Nedas
Business Development Manger
XTM International
+44 (0) 1753 480 469
[email protected] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Things go from bad to worse ... | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
