Unfortunate experience with Moneybookers - beware 投稿者: Iuliana Bozkurt
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Hello everybody,
I am writing this post in order to raise awareness among my less financially-savvy colleagues (like myself), regarding Moneybookers/Skrill payments. I don't know whether what I will write below applies to PayPal, I haven't investigated it yet, but I surely will, after what has just happened to me.
A couple of days ago I had a most unfortunate experience with Moneybookers and I thought it is important for you to take into consideration some very importan... See more Hello everybody,
I am writing this post in order to raise awareness among my less financially-savvy colleagues (like myself), regarding Moneybookers/Skrill payments. I don't know whether what I will write below applies to PayPal, I haven't investigated it yet, but I surely will, after what has just happened to me.
A couple of days ago I had a most unfortunate experience with Moneybookers and I thought it is important for you to take into consideration some very important aspects when you receive payments, aspects which you might not notice at the first glance.
Briefly, I received money from a client of mine via Moneybookers. The amount was 1500.00 euros. Upon receipt, MB charged their fee, almost 30 EUR. Then, I withdrew the funds to my bank account. A couple of days later, my local bank here called me to let me know that they rejected these funds because I indicated an EUR account instead of my local currency account (although the money in my MB account was in EUR). Anyway.
OK, what to do, the funds were returned to MB. To my absolute surprise, a couple of days later, when I checked my glorious MB account, I discovered that all this rejection stuff had cost me 75 euros!!!! I called my bank, who said they charged no rejection fee. I called MB in the UK, who said they did not charge anything either for this rejection... Things were getting more and more weird.
Finally, the customer service lady from MB told me that MB money goes through a local partner bank, from which it goes to the local bank. So, the circuit of my funds was: Moneybookers - local bank 1 (their partner) - local bank 2 (my bank). Apparently this local bank 1 charges huge fees for currency conversion and for redirecting the funds.
But, wait! The story does not end here! I withdrew again the funds, to local bank 1 (I happen to have an account with that bank too), hoping to elude those huge bank fees. To my surprise, today I noticed that this local bank HAS (AGAIN) STOLEN from me another approx. 30 euros!!!
Why? Because they used a currency exchange rate below the National Bank's official exchange rate! Yesterday, the date when the funds were received, 1 EUR = 4.53 RON (National Bank exchange rate), but the Raiffeisen (bank 1) exchange rate they applied in my case was 1 EUR = 4.43 RON!!! The most interesting fact is that this rate is below the official exchange rate Raiffeisen posted on their website. The whole manoeuver is illegal, as far as I know. I called Raiffeisen asking how come they exchange below the official rate and, also, what exchange rate they used for my money. They said they have no idea, as they have a special contract in place with Moneybookers, which is confidential, and that they would investigate the matter further and call me back.
I am absolutely speechless and stupefied. Because from my 1500 euros I lost 30 + 75 + 30 = 135 euros. And of course I will not be called back again by those thieves. Now I will file a complaint with the Consumer Protection Authority, but I hope that this post will prevent other colleagues (especially from Romania or other countries that do not use major currencies as their official currency) from falling into the same trap.
Oh, and please be aware that MB does not indicate any exchange rate on their site - they tell you: your EUR funds will be converted into (local currency) and you will receive the money in your local currency. But no info whatsoever about the exchange rate. Complete silence or elusive answers. And be aware that your local bank will not give you this information either (as I said above, they will serve you the ''special confidential agreement with Moneybookers'', inaccessible to lay persons).
This is why I will close my MB account, as I do not want to lose all my money in their dirty financial games. Probably we should all do the same, to teach them a lesson on transparency and customer respect... Am I not right? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | This is how they make money ... | Dec 7, 2012 |
And you are absolutely right. I never accept clients who pay via PayPal, MB etc. as the bank transfer rates are often lower that the percentage/exchange rate for those agencies.
Kind Regards
Jens
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I didn't think you paid to receive money on MoneyBookers. I've got an account but I've only received two payments to it (from a middle-eastern country where there are precious few alternatives) - I'm sure I didn't pay anything at all, although I know I will if I transfer the money to my bank instead of using it to buy things online. Is it something to do with account type or volume that prevented yours being free?
But your info about intervening banks is interesting. I've been stung... See more I didn't think you paid to receive money on MoneyBookers. I've got an account but I've only received two payments to it (from a middle-eastern country where there are precious few alternatives) - I'm sure I didn't pay anything at all, although I know I will if I transfer the money to my bank instead of using it to buy things online. Is it something to do with account type or volume that prevented yours being free?
But your info about intervening banks is interesting. I've been stung by that on bank transfers, and absolutely nobody could tell me in advance how much the next transfer would cost - in fact, some have come through free! Needless to say, I've found other ways of transferring money.
Thanks for the heads-up, Iuliana. ▲ Collapse
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Iuliana Isac wrote:
Hello everybody,
I am writing this post in order to raise awareness among my less financially-savvy colleagues (like myself), regarding Moneybookers/Skrill payments. I don't know whether what I will write below applies to PayPal, I haven't investigated it yet, but I surely will, after what has just happened to me.
A couple of days ago I had a most unfortunate experience with Moneybookers and I thought it is important for you to take into consideration some very important aspects when you receive payments, aspects which you might not notice at the first glance.
Briefly, I received money from a client of mine via Moneybookers. The amount was 1500.00 euros. Upon receipt, MB charged their fee, almost 30 EUR. Then, I withdrew the funds to my bank account. A couple of days later, my local bank here called me to let me know that they rejected these funds because I indicated an EUR account instead of my local currency account (although the money in my MB account was in EUR). Anyway.
OK, what to do, the funds were returned to MB. To my absolute surprise, a couple of days later, when I checked my glorious MB account, I discovered that all this rejection stuff had cost me 75 euros!!!! I called my bank, who said they charged no rejection fee. I called MB in the UK, who said they did not charge anything either for this rejection... Things were getting more and more weird.
Finally, the customer service lady from MB told me that MB money goes through a local partner bank, from which it goes to the local bank. So, the circuit of my funds was: Moneybookers - local bank 1 (their partner) - local bank 2 (my bank). Apparently this local bank 1 charges huge fees for currency conversion and for redirecting the funds.
But, wait! The story does not end here! I withdrew again the funds, to local bank 1 (I happen to have an account with that bank too), hoping to elude those huge bank fees. To my surprise, today I noticed that this local bank HAS (AGAIN) STOLEN from me another approx. 30 euros!!!
Why? Because they used a currency exchange rate below the National Bank's official exchange rate! Yesterday, the date when the funds were received, 1 EUR = 4.53 RON (National Bank exchange rate), but the Raiffeisen (bank 1) exchange rate they applied in my case was 1 EUR = 4.43 RON!!! The most interesting fact is that this rate is below the official exchange rate Raiffeisen posted on their website. The whole manoeuver is illegal, as far as I know. I called Raiffeisen asking how come they exchange below the official rate and, also, what exchange rate they used for my money. They said they have no idea, as they have a special contract in place with Moneybookers, which is confidential, and that they would investigate the matter further and call me back.
I am absolutely speechless and stupefied. Because from my 1500 euros I lost 30 + 75 + 30 = 135 euros. And of course I will not be called back again by those thieves. Now I will file a complaint with the Consumer Protection Authority, but I hope that this post will prevent other colleagues (especially from Romania or other countries that do not use major currencies as their official currency) from falling into the same trap.
Oh, and please be aware that MB does not indicate any exchange rate on their site - they tell you: your EUR funds will be converted into (local currency) and you will receive the money in your local currency. But no info whatsoever about the exchange rate. Complete silence or elusive answers. And be aware that your local bank will not give you this information either (as I said above, they will serve you the ''special confidential agreement with Moneybookers'', inaccessible to lay persons).
This is why I will close my MB account, as I do not want to lose all my money in their dirty financial games. Probably we should all do the same, to teach them a lesson on transparency and customer respect... Am I not right?
I don't think that MB is to be blamed here. Banks take their fees. It's life.
Also, this situation should not have happened if you linked your MB account to VISA card instead of bank account.
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| Agree with Jens | Dec 7, 2012 |
All those non-banking payment systems may work OK in a single currency, but they always
give you a raw deal with currency conversion. However, in this case, given that they charged you a lot of money for nothing, I think you may want to send them a letter requesting them to refund the fees or to show you a legal proof why you are not entitled to a refund. Maybe also call the Romanian financial regulatory authority and ask them if what happened is legal.
| | | | | I have been using them for ages | Dec 7, 2012 |
I have been using Moneybookers (now Skrill) for ages with no issue at all.
You don't pay to receive money, just to send them and to withdraw money to your bank account, according to this scheme: https://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=fees
When I withdrew money to my Italian bank account I was charged just €1.80 by MB and that was all. Was I lucky?
I ne... See more I have been using Moneybookers (now Skrill) for ages with no issue at all.
You don't pay to receive money, just to send them and to withdraw money to your bank account, according to this scheme: https://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=fees
When I withdrew money to my Italian bank account I was charged just €1.80 by MB and that was all. Was I lucky?
I never paid attention to MB conversion fees since there is no way to avoid them, and I am unable to receive bank transfer in a currency other than EUR, so I am stuck with MB or PayPal.
I found MB fees very clear since the beginning, so I am very surprised to hear your story. Thanks for sharing! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
オランダ
Local time: 02:03
2006に入会
英語 から アフリカーンス語
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| Intermediary bank | Dec 7, 2012 |
Iuliana Isac wrote:
Finally, the customer service lady from MB told me that MB money goes through a local partner bank, from which it goes to the local bank. So, the circuit of my funds was: Moneybookers - local bank 1 (their partner) - local bank 2 (my bank). Apparently this local bank 1 charges huge fees for currency conversion and for redirecting the funds.
Yes, but this happens to any SWIFT money transfer (it is not specific to Moneybookers). If there is no direct relationship between the two banks, the money goes through an intermediary bank (or banks) and these banks all charge a fee. It is often impossible to determine which intermediary bank will be used or what fee they will charge.
Because they used a currency exchange rate below the National Bank's official exchange rate! Yesterday, the date when the funds were received, 1 EUR = 4.53 RON (National Bank exchange rate), but the Raiffeisen (bank 1) exchange rate they applied in my case was 1 EUR = 4.43 RON!
Yes, but the interest rate used by banks is never the "official" rate. They use different rates depending on the amount being transferred, or on the method of payment, or on who the parties are that are involved, etc, etc. The same applies when you exchange money -- the advertised exchange rate is never the rate used for the actual exchange (even if the rate is advertised right in front of you at the place where you exchange the money).
This is why I will close my MB account, as I do not want to lose all my money in their dirty financial games.
Well, there is no need to close it. Moneybookers could not have known that your own bank will reject the first transfer (and isn't it fair to assume that if your account is not in EUR, then your local bank would simply convert the funds and charge an admin fee for it?).
Furthermore, I'm not sure if the people you spoke to at Moneybookers even knows which intermediary bank will be used for a particular transaction (and/or how many intermediary banks there will be). I'm frankly surprised that you were able to determine that yourself.
Also, Moneybookers has no control over the exchange rate used by the bank. I rather doubt if there is a "special confidential agreement" that is any different from any other agreement that the bank usually has with other banks. It is possible that the bank employee was just trying to brush you off with that comment.
| | | | Iuliana Bozkurt
ルーマニア
Local time: 03:03
2008に入会
英語 から ルーマニア語
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TOPIC STARTER | Small difference | Dec 7, 2012 |
Dear Paola,
the Moneybookers/PayPal system works as follows: when the money is sent, the sending party decides who bears the transfer fees. If the sender (the agency) takes care of that, you receive your full fee. Otherwise, you are responsible with paying the transfer fee (and you do pay it automatically upon receipt of the money).
In my case, when I received the 1500 euros, the agency did not pay the transfer fee, therefore I had to pay it myself (the 30 euros I menti... See more Dear Paola,
the Moneybookers/PayPal system works as follows: when the money is sent, the sending party decides who bears the transfer fees. If the sender (the agency) takes care of that, you receive your full fee. Otherwise, you are responsible with paying the transfer fee (and you do pay it automatically upon receipt of the money).
In my case, when I received the 1500 euros, the agency did not pay the transfer fee, therefore I had to pay it myself (the 30 euros I mentioned in my initial post). So, if you receive your money in full, that means the agency is paying the transfer fee for you, which is quite nice of them Personally, I am rarely that lucky. I usually pay the transfer fee myself (or if the amount is too large, I negotiate it and sometimes split it with the agency).
So it should not surprise you if, one day, an agency will not select that option and you will have to pay for what you receive.
Also, withdrawals are always subject to a fee.
Hope this helped!
Iuliana ▲ Collapse
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Iuliana Bozkurt
ルーマニア
Local time: 03:03
2008に入会
英語 から ルーマニア語
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I just received Moneybooker's response to my complaint and I am posting here the essential part, maybe it could be useful to you too:
''For transactions involving currency conversion Skrill adds 2.99% to our wholesale exchange rates for foreign currency.'' (wow, 3%! Within the EU!)
For my info, I also checked Moneybooker's currency exchange rates and, indeed, these are below the official rates of the national banks (wow again, but starting to get used to it) by approx 0... See more I just received Moneybooker's response to my complaint and I am posting here the essential part, maybe it could be useful to you too:
''For transactions involving currency conversion Skrill adds 2.99% to our wholesale exchange rates for foreign currency.'' (wow, 3%! Within the EU!)
For my info, I also checked Moneybooker's currency exchange rates and, indeed, these are below the official rates of the national banks (wow again, but starting to get used to it) by approx 0.7%. From the beginning you lose 3.7%.
And there is also the so-called chargeback fee, in value of 25 euros. This chargeback fee means the fee charged in case the money returns to Moneybookers after withdrawal (just like in my case, because the local bank rejected the withdrawal).
Plus the fees charged by the intermediary bank... the mystery is solved. Due to these nice, added-up fees, you end up losing 5% of your money. Yep.
Btw, further info can be found here:
https://www.moneybookers.com/ads/merchant-account/fees/
Good luck in making the right (and informed) financial decisions! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Content removed by poster | | Why get scammed anywhere else? Comes to us instead! | Dec 7, 2012 |
Iuliana Isac wrote:
you end up losing 5% of your money.
Doesn't Paypal charge roughly the same fees? Many people use that system and I don't hear them complaining about getting fleeced. Hidden fees are bad, sure, but most of the time Moneybookers comes out as the cheaper alternative.
| | | | | MB money receive fees | Dec 7, 2012 |
Paola Slajmer wrote: I have been using Moneybookers (now Skrill) for ages with no issue at all. You don't pay to receive money, just to send them and to withdraw money to your bank account, according to this scheme: https://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=fees
I don't get this. Are you sure you are using the right type of account?
When I opened my MB account years ago, it was a personal account and indeed nothing was charged for receiving money.
However, after a while, they told me I needed to change my account into a business account, because I was using it to receive money for business services. Even if I didn't link it to a website or something, but simply indicated my e-mail address to my clients. Ever since, they are charging a certain % on ALL amounts received. It is very upsetting but I don't know how to avoid this.
So how come they are not charging you, Paola?
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Kai Döring
フィリピン
Local time: 08:03
英語 から ドイツ語
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SITE LOCALIZER | Transfer the money in your local currency | Dec 9, 2012 |
I know that you can "create" different currencies in MB. Hence, you will be able to see how much will be transferred to you account.
I did not compare yet how bad or good the exchange rate of MB is, but I know my bank would charge a fee if I receive a foreign currency wire.
| | | | Lu Wang
Local time: 08:03
中国語 から 英語
+ ...
| Your Problem might be with the Bank | Dec 9, 2012 |
I use both PP and MB. My banker charge me nothing.
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