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This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Apr 8, 2017 00:51
7 yrs ago
23 viewers *
Spanish term

no consentido

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Of course I know exactly what they mean by this, but can't come up with a neat way to put it.

Context:
El Tribunal debería por lo menos deducir esta cantidad de los daños en el supuesto no consentido de que encontrara responsabilidad de Xxxxxxx con respecto a cualquiera de los reclamos de la Demandante.

Your suggestions are appreciated.
Proposed translations (English)
4 not (previously) agreed
4 hypothetical
4 in the unlikely event that
4 -1 unallowed (situation, scenario, event)
3 disallowed/rejected
References
No consentido = no aceptado

Discussion

Jeffrey Morrison Apr 25, 2018:
Arguendo is a Latin legal term meaning "for the sake of argument."
Heather Hayes Dec 19, 2017:
Robert, great response! Thanks so much for that insight!
Robert Carter Dec 19, 2017:
Actually, it's a shame Richard closed this question, as I've subsequently found the legal term for this: "arguendo", which is used as "if, arguendo,..." or "assuming, arguendo,..."

Wikipedia:
Assuming arguendo allows an attorney to examine the conclusions of premises without admitting that these premises—often the asserted facts of the opposing party—could be true.[1][2]

A criminal defense attorney may say, "if, arguendo, my client stole the internet data and password, then saving a life would have justified stealing it," thus suggesting that determining the client's guilt or innocence is pointless because they would cause identical legal effects.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguendo

However, Heatheruio, your suggestion is perfectly reasonable, as this legal drafter notes:

3. Just Say No: “even assuming arguendo,” “assuming arguendo,” “arguendo,” or even just “even assuming.”
Try “even if.”
https://www.legalwritingpro.com/blog/no-thanks-six-words-and...

Personally, I think "arguendo" also makes the "while not admitting it to be true" aspect more explicit.

We might also reasonably say "assuming, without admitting".
Heather Hayes Dec 19, 2017:
Even if This comes up so much in documents, what I understand it to mean is "in the event one were to operate under the assumption with which we do not agree," but to shorten it up, just use "even if" as the English replacement for "en el supuesto no consentido"
Richard Hill (asker) Apr 8, 2017:
Context Sorry, I should have mentioned that it's the attorney talking here. I had actually used a solution similar to that suggested by James C. (in brackets): "The Tribunal must at least deduct this amount from the damages in the event that it finds Xxxxxx liable (which is denied) for any of the Claimant’s claims." but was looking for a way around using brackets, but it works OK I guess. Thanks all!

Proposed translations

-1
1 hr

unallowed (situation, scenario, event)

"allowed" or "permitted" is the translation found in several respected bilingual dictionaries in the context of "situation, scenario, event, assumption, ..."
Peer comment(s):
disagree AllegroTrans : "disallowed" would be the correct English usage not "unallowed"
13 hrs
adjective not allowed or permitted; unacceptable Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers "disallowed" implies at one time it was allowed and subsequently rejected. "Unallowed" does not have this implication.
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57 mins

not (previously) agreed

I would say

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-08 02:25:14 GMT)
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or: approved

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-04-08 02:25:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"unapproved"
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14 hrs

disallowed/rejected

I would say
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20 hrs

hypothetical

As Cristina says in her reference, and I imagine Richard has understood this, too, it doesn't mean "not allowed", "disallowed" or anything synonymous with that, it means "while we do not take this for granted" or "while we do not admit this is the case".

For this reason, I think you could simplify it to "in the hypothetical case that XXXX were found to be responsible..." or "hypothetically speaking, if XXXX were to be found responsible".



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Note added at 21 hrs (2017-04-08 21:52:18 GMT)
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I hadn't seen the discussion entry before I posted, but clearly Richard has understood the meaning here.
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382 days
Spanish term (edited): en el supuesto no consentido de que

in the unlikely event that

assuming, though we don't agree that this is the case,
Example sentence:

en el supuesto no consentido de que el delito exista

in the unlikely event that the crime exists (or is real or actually happened)

Something went wrong...

Reference comments

12 hrs
Reference:

No consentido = no aceptado

Reference information:
En este caso, "no consentido" significa que el supuesto ("assumption") del que se está hablando no es aceptado por el abogado que expresa la frase.
"En el supuesto de que..., el cual no aceptamos, ... " "Suponiendo que... (lo cual no es así, lo cual no admitimos) ....

Esto lo he encontrado mucho en los documentos de arbitraje internacional en los que se plantean muchos muchos casos hipotéticos para la determinación de los daños y perjuicios. Espero que te resulte útil.


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Note added at 12 hrs (2017-04-08 13:17:23 GMT)
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(Se me fue un "muchos" demás)
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Jacob Z. (X) : Seems reasonable. So, like: "If Xxxxxxx is found to be liable in relation to any of the Plaintiff's claims (although we do not agree that Xxxxxxxx should be), then the Court should at least deduct this amount from the amount of the damages"?
1 hr
Yes, that is the idea
agree Robert Carter : Exactly, it means something like "hypothetically speaking".
8 hrs
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