| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Reviewing Quality of Translation and Vetting Good Linguists Thread poster: Laura Coyt Zavala
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Hello!
I am PM at a new-ish LSP. We are currently recruiting translators in all sort of languages, but because I only know Spanish, I can only really vet and determine whether a Spanish translator is good and not just doing the bare minimum or machine translation. In the past, we have considered having translators proofread each other's work and let us know if the quality os good, but more often they just tear each other apart. We don't know who to believe! I understand they are com... See more Hello!
I am PM at a new-ish LSP. We are currently recruiting translators in all sort of languages, but because I only know Spanish, I can only really vet and determine whether a Spanish translator is good and not just doing the bare minimum or machine translation. In the past, we have considered having translators proofread each other's work and let us know if the quality os good, but more often they just tear each other apart. We don't know who to believe! I understand they are competing for work so of course they'd say the other is no good, but we still need them to be honest. And there is plenty of work to go around! Are there companies or established linguists that can review translations to determine the quality and be fair? We think a third party might be best to do QA than our in-house translators. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thank you! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga 
Germany
Local time: 17:19
Member (2009)
English to German
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| The QA arena | Jul 15, 2022 |
Any translator and/or reviewer in good standing will be fair when it comes to the evaluation of a colleague's work, and set personal preferences aside as long as the translation is correct. In case one's own preference would add eloquence to the text, a good reviewer will suggest just that change, leaving it up to the client to decide which s/he prefers.
Reviewers who tear other's work apart should simply be ignored and kept at bay. This might sound harsh, but greed has hardly ever ... See more Any translator and/or reviewer in good standing will be fair when it comes to the evaluation of a colleague's work, and set personal preferences aside as long as the translation is correct. In case one's own preference would add eloquence to the text, a good reviewer will suggest just that change, leaving it up to the client to decide which s/he prefers.
Reviewers who tear other's work apart should simply be ignored and kept at bay. This might sound harsh, but greed has hardly ever lasted long in this industry. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 18:19
Member
English to Turkish
| Couldn't agree more | Jul 15, 2022 |
Laura Coyt Zavala wrote:
In the past, we have considered having translators proofread each other's work and let us know if the quality os good, but more often they just tear each other apart. We don't know who to believe! I understand they are competing for work so of course they'd say the other is no good, but we still need them to be honest. And there is plenty of work to go around! Are there companies or established linguists that can review translations to determine the quality and be fair? We think a third party might be best to do QA than our in-house translators. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thank you!
That's what I have been saying on these forums on every proofreading related topic. A translation agency's translators do not make reliable reviewers/proofreaders especially in language pairs where English is the source language. You need to have an external (third party) reviewer who is not a translator working with that translation agency on a regular basis.
| | | | Laura Coyt Zavala
United States
Local time: 11:19
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Baran Keki wrote:
You need to have an external (third party) reviewer who is not a translator working with that translation agency on a regular basis.
Right! So where can I find a reviewer? lol
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Dalia Nour
Egypt
Local time: 18:19
Member (2018)
English to Arabic
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| Proz find/ Proz directory! | Jul 15, 2022 |
You may try to search for reviewers through Proz find or Proz directory using the required language pair.
You will find many reviewers and you may select people how are rated well or have professional profiles.
I think this is the most common way here on Proz!
| | | | | My five cents | Jul 15, 2022 |
Generally, besides the level of fitness in the subject to be vetted (and not necessarily only of the target language in general), I would look for an elder person who has reached a certain degree of saturation, which means she/he is at the end of her/his career and does not need to show off and kick away competitors. And please, do never ever disclose the name of the linguist to be vetted, under all circumstances! Where to find here? Possibly in the directory. And while choosing, I also would lo... See more Generally, besides the level of fitness in the subject to be vetted (and not necessarily only of the target language in general), I would look for an elder person who has reached a certain degree of saturation, which means she/he is at the end of her/his career and does not need to show off and kick away competitors. And please, do never ever disclose the name of the linguist to be vetted, under all circumstances! Where to find here? Possibly in the directory. And while choosing, I also would look at how that person in question communicates here on proz in public, e.g. in the kudoz area and in the forums, with what attitude and what level of generosity / philanthropy. Said that, I wouldn't be the right person for that job, but for Spanish into English I think I and many others here would know the very right person for you  ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Overzealous reviewers | Jul 16, 2022 |
I usually met with external reviewers. Many of them were acceptable and professional but some are too zealous or impractical. They wanted only to eliminate my translations.
Some of them were tools to kick out good translators and to invite novice ones. They were so annoying.
Soonthon L.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Several suggestions | Jul 16, 2022 |
1. Try to provide anonymized tests and in batches. Let graders see 2+ translations of the same text side by side.
2. Tell graders THEY ARE NOT A STYLE GUIDE. That's a teachable moment for later, unless you provided instructions and these were disregarded. If you do provide style instructions, keep them brief to avoid scaring off the most experienced translators, but also CRUCIFY applicants for violating then.
Examples of style guide stuff to ignore in grading:
* E... See more 1. Try to provide anonymized tests and in batches. Let graders see 2+ translations of the same text side by side.
2. Tell graders THEY ARE NOT A STYLE GUIDE. That's a teachable moment for later, unless you provided instructions and these were disregarded. If you do provide style instructions, keep them brief to avoid scaring off the most experienced translators, but also CRUCIFY applicants for violating then.
Examples of style guide stuff to ignore in grading:
* End semicolons vs. end periods vs. unpunctuated bullets, if consistent
* Capitalization
* Degree of localization: "Most Honorable Excellency" (or something, per source) vs. "Dear Sir" (localized) vs. "Dear Sir or Madam" (localization + inclusivity)
3. Instruct graders not to change degree of letter or instruction politeness... unless it is wildly wrong ("Please good Sir or Madam kindly perform this" where source text says "Do this"). In such a case, ask them to comment on the fact.
4. Ask them to comment on the entire thing. "Did no research" or "All terminology wrong" should have rather more weight than squabbles over punctuation. "Repeatedly inconsistent terminology" is often a sign of a bad faith actor abusing MT.
5. LET THEM KNOW that a test is a test and not a deliverable product. No stealth tests comparing levels of tracked changes, especially to be conducted by your usual translators and evaluated secretly by a PM comparing levels of red markup. Heavy markup on a stealth test by an unaware reviewer may be all style guide stuff or same-difference match replacement from their translation memory, while a mere couple words replaced in a key place may change the whole meaning of a paragraph or more.
[Edited at 2022-07-16 01:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Sadek_A
Local time: 19:19
English to Arabic
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It's said that "you are what you eat" and also "you get what you pay for".
You, Laura, posted a thread that seems telling of an educated company and PM on the outside; now, let's see the inside!
How do you plan to remunerate those reviewers, who are expected to be the backbone of your company's best practices?
Remember, in accounting, external auditors are paid an arm and a leg (nothing to be compared to the peanuts paid to internal auditors) for the honest... See more It's said that "you are what you eat" and also "you get what you pay for".
You, Laura, posted a thread that seems telling of an educated company and PM on the outside; now, let's see the inside!
How do you plan to remunerate those reviewers, who are expected to be the backbone of your company's best practices?
Remember, in accounting, external auditors are paid an arm and a leg (nothing to be compared to the peanuts paid to internal auditors) for the honest/disciplined/mandatory service they provide! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laura Coyt Zavala
United States
Local time: 11:19
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | unnecessary preamble | Jul 19, 2022 |
You, Laura, posted a thread that seems telling of an educated company and PM on the outside; now, let's see the inside!
How do you plan to remunerate those reviewers, who are expected to be the backbone of your company's best practices?
Well this comment is insulting, but I will answer your question nonetheless.
We, of course, have every intention of compensating the reviewers fairly and at market rate. Though we are a small and newer LSP, we pride ourselves on treating our linguists with the utmost respect and understand their value to our company.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
If I were doing this (reviewing translations from any language into English) I would probably develop a simple grading system something along the lines of:
A- excellent, does not read like a translation- requires no improvement although like any translator I might have done a few things differently
B- Correct but doesn't flow well. You can tell it's a translation
C - Mechanical - You can tell it's a translation and has probably relied heavily on MT
D - Poor. Bad st... See more If I were doing this (reviewing translations from any language into English) I would probably develop a simple grading system something along the lines of:
A- excellent, does not read like a translation- requires no improvement although like any translator I might have done a few things differently
B- Correct but doesn't flow well. You can tell it's a translation
C - Mechanical - You can tell it's a translation and has probably relied heavily on MT
D - Poor. Bad style, bad flow, numerous mistakes
E - Forget it. This needs to be translated all over again ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laura Coyt Zavala
United States
Local time: 11:19
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | separating wheat from chaff | Jul 19, 2022 |
Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.) wrote:
I usually met with external reviewers. Many of them were acceptable and professional but some are too zealous or impractical. They wanted only to eliminate my translations.
Some of them were tools to kick out good translators and to invite novice ones. They were so annoying.
Soonthon L.
Thank you for your response! This is exactly what we want to avoid. We are open to any recommendations to fair and helpful reviewers!
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Sadek_A
Local time: 19:19
English to Arabic
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Laura Coyt Zavala wrote:
unnecessary preamble
It was necessary, and below is explained why.
Laura Coyt Zavala wrote:
this comment is insulting
Not at all.
Your opening post did give me the impression that both you and the company you work for are educated. And, by "educated" I don't mean in school subjects, but rather in the importance of having the appropriate QA measures in place.
However, such measures are not free nor even cheap, and you -sadly- didn't give any hint as to how much invested both you and the company are in buying those measures. That combined with your strange and odd "LOL" in a serious thread that you yourself started, all gave me the feeling that -like other companies & PMs- you're just not ready to pay what it takes.
So, I gave you credit for seeking proper QA, but also inquired about your projected investment in this regard.
Laura Coyt Zavala wrote:
We, of course, have every intention of compensating the reviewers fairly and at market rate.
I hope you won't take the following as another insult; but, your quote above still doesn't show how invested you are.
Here's how the invested party would've answered:
"We are looking to sign a CONTRACT with the successful candidate. Under such contract, said candidate will be paid [X amount] per hour with a requirement of [X words] maximum per hour, and will be assigned a minimum of [X hours] per working day [X days] a week. Additionally, they will also be awarded [X amount] per every (1) corrected mistranslation, (2) filled omission, (3) reordered jumbled piece of text".
That way candidates can see if your initial offer is worth establishing a communication with you, and also contemplate whether the requirements and/or allocations are reasonable enough to make a commitment.
| | | | Laura Coyt Zavala
United States
Local time: 11:19
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sadek_A wrote:
Not at all.
It was insulting, I was insulted. Whether it was your intention to insult is irrelevant because I was insulted either way,
Sadek_A wrote: but also inquired about your projected investment in this regard.
We are absolutely invested in ensuring the quality of our translations, this is why we are seeking advice via this forum. Because we highly value the views and expertise of professional linguists.
Sadek_A wrote:
your quote above still doesn't show how invested you are.
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That way candidates can see if your initial offer is worth establishing a communication with you, and also contemplate whether the requirements and/or allocations are reasonable enough to make a commitment.
Since this is not a job posting but rather a forum in which to post questions and have a discussion it would be inappropriate for me to post the details of payment for this project. Offers are not presented until both parties have met privately to discuss the scope of the project and discussed expectations. Similarly, I would not expect you or any other linguist to post the details of their rates here. Probably for the same reason you do not have your rates posted publicly on your profile.
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