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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

the use of article

English answer:

Chromatograph XX μL of each, that is, the test solution and the YYYYYYYY RS solution

Added to glossary by Alexander Grabowski
Nov 3, 2019 04:11
4 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term

the use of article

English Science Physics хроматографи�
Chromatograph XX μL of each the test solution and ***the*** YYYYYYYY RS solution.

Should i use the highlighted definite article or i shouldn't?

TIA,
Responses
3 Chromatograph XX μL of each - the test solution and the YYYYYYYY RS solution.
4 +1 No need to use "the"
Change log

Nov 3, 2019 04:11: Alexander Grabowski changed "Language pair" from "Russian to English" to "English"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): Edith Kelly, Yvonne Gallagher

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Discussion

David Moore (X) Nov 8, 2019:
@Tony M: I'd surmise the problem is that the poster is not looking at the translation with an English Native Speaker's eyes.
Tony M Nov 8, 2019:
@ Asker I think you are over-thinking this!
If you just say 'chromatograph solutions A and B', it would normally not be assumed you were going to mix them! The default situation would simply be that you would do them separately.
If, however, it was required to combine them, then that non-default situation would be required to be specifically indicated in some way.
I would tend to avoid 'consecutively', which tends to have a temporal connotation that is not necessary here; if you really feel some adverb is necessary to make it completely explicit and remove all possibility of ambiguity, I would simply use 'separately'.
Alexander Grabowski (asker) Nov 8, 2019:
Dear Colleagues, It has just dawned on me I'd use "chromatograph consecutively sol. A and sol. B" instead of making a cocktail of the 2 solutions. Am I right?
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Nov 7, 2019:
As I speak Polish, Russian, and English, I understand the difficulty of using the article system. BTW - the article system usage is also different in German and French. Other than in idiomatic expressions, the usage of articles follows grammatical rules.
Tony M Nov 7, 2019:
@ Asker This issue of whether or not to use a definite article poses a problem for speakers of certain languages, including I believe RU, due to the different structure of their own language.
It's important to note, however, that it is not merely a question of "what sounds best"; certainly, the presence or not may make the sentence read better — but there is also an element that may change the sense: perhaps not the broader meaning, but certainly, the nuance of expression behind it.
Using 'the' implies there is something specific about what follows, whereas its absence implies a certain generality. See if these examples help:

"Add the solution [that we've just been talking about] to the mixture described"
"Dilute the [= specific] solution using [some] water"
"Measure out equal quantities of glycerine and nitric acid, then add the acid [that you've just measured out] to the glycerine [ditto]

Sometimes you can add or omit the def. article freely — but you always need to bear in mind this "rule of thumb" to decide whether its presence might be necessary / desirable.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Nov 7, 2019:
Yes, both "the" should be kept with a suitably modified sentence, as suggested below.
David Moore (X) Nov 7, 2019:
Again, I agree with... Tony M. It looks almost as if you want to use "each" at all costs, but If you are open to good advice, take Tony's and replace your "each" with "both". And leave the second "the" in - it simply sounds better to the ENS ear.
Tony M Nov 7, 2019:
@ Asker Either you have to use 'all' — which leaves little room for ambiguity, since you would be unlikely to make a "cocktail" of several solutions!
Or else you have to use 'each', but with one of the modified wordings suggested, like 'each of' etc., to make it idiomatic.
Alexander Grabowski (asker) Nov 7, 2019:
Thanks to all respondents! The key point is that the solutions are to be chromatographed separately! But when the number of solutions is MT 2, how can I use "both" instead of "each"?
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Nov 3, 2019:
In other words:
"Chromatograph XX μL of each, that is, the test solution and the YYYYYYYY RS solution."
"Chromatograph XX μL of both the test solution and the YYYYYYYY RS solution."

So, one can keep both "the" in the sentence.
David Moore (X) Nov 3, 2019:
I agree... with Tony M's entry just below; IMO, the answer posted could be misleading.
Tony M Nov 3, 2019:
@ Asker As M.A.B. highlights, 'each the test solution' is quite wrong here; however, I suspect in fact the problem is not 'the', but rather, your attempted use of 'each'. I think if you are trying to say "make 1 chromatograph of each of: the test solution + solution XYZ", then you need to express it like that; however, it may not necessaily be essential to spell it out quite so literally, as people would naturally expect the solutions to be chromatographed separately! Or you could say "make chromatographs of the test solution + solution XYZ"
Otherwise, the way you are trying to express it here would often be expressed by using 'both' in EN instead of 'each'.
M.A.B. Nov 3, 2019:
but certainly not "each the test solution"; either "each test solution" or "each of the test solutions"

Responses

8 hrs
Selected

Chromatograph XX μL of each - the test solution and the YYYYYYYY RS solution.

I suspect that there is a punctuation mark missing - a hyphen. It makes sense that chromatographs of both solutions with the same volume should be taken.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2019-11-07 12:54:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In other words:
"Chromatograph XX μL of each, that is, the test solution and the YYYYYYYY RS solution."
"Chromatograph XX μL of both the test solution and the YYYYYYYY RS solution."

So, one can keep both "the" in the sentence.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : In the particular sentence as you put it, the use of a hyphen instead of 'of' would not be idiomatic, and reads awkwardly. The issue really is putting any punctuation after 'each' to introduce an enumeration.
3 days 23 hrs
One needs some kind of a stop to begin the enumeration of the two solutions. I suggested a hyphen; a colon or a simple comma might do as well. I provided two other alternative punctuations.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Frank!"
+1
3 hrs

No need to use "the"

If you have mentioned this particular solution earlier in the paper then you should definitely use “the.” However if this is the case and for the second use and on you should say the solution. In fact you can drop a footnote to indicate that from now on this particular solution will be called as the solution.

For your information: Although in scientific methodologies the is not needed unless YYYYYYY RS solution is well known and somewhat specific chromatography solution, then I would say YES use “the YYYYYYY RS solution.” This is because you are not just talking about a general chromatography method anymore instead you are talking about a particular protocol that uses this YYYYYYY RS solution therefore you should highlight it with “the."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2019-11-07 12:57:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re: The key point is that the solutions are to be chromatographed separately! But when the number of solutions is MT 2, how can I use "both" instead of "each"?

XX μL of both test solution and YYYYYYY RS solution were Chromatographed separately.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
1 hr
Thanks
agree Sarah Lewis-Morgan
1 hr
Thanks
disagree David Moore (X) : Odd, that Tony M should agree with this answer, then add a DC which effectively negates what you suggest. I agree with Tony M's DE, and think he should have posted it as an answer.
2 hrs
neutral philgoddard : I'm not clear what you're suggesting as a translation.
5 hrs
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