Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
grounding out spark
English answer:
to short out HT voltage to ground (earth) [so no spark is produced]
Added to glossary by
Tony M
May 20, 2009 19:28
14 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term
Russian Federation
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Native in: Russian (Variant: Standard-Russia)
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English
grounding out
English
Tech/Engineering
Petroleum Eng/Sci
Burner
Could you explain, what is going on when:
Ignition electrodes cracked and grounding out spark
OR
Ignition lead wire defective and grounding spark out
grounding out spark = to produce sparks or to not produce sparks or sparkling hardly or excessively?
Or it is something else?
Ignition electrodes cracked and grounding out spark
OR
Ignition lead wire defective and grounding spark out
grounding out spark = to produce sparks or to not produce sparks or sparkling hardly or excessively?
Or it is something else?
Change log
May 21, 2009 13:36: Tony M changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/88643">Alexander Taguiltsev's</a> old entry - "grounding out "" to ""to NOT produce sparks""
Responses
1 hr
Selected
to NOT produce sparks
The spark is created by a high voltage; if something along the line shorts this high voltage line to earth (= ground in the US), then the voltage will not reach the igniter as intended, and hence there will be no spark.
grounding out = shorting out to ground
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Note added at 1 heure (2009-05-20 20:49:17 GMT)
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In fact, such short-circuits are often only partial — with the sorts of high voltages usually involved, it is more a case of leakage paths, which drain away some of the ignition energy, so the spark is weaker than it should be.
Just the same sort of thing that happens with the spark plugs in your car engine, if they get dirty or fouled up.
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Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:05:08 GMT)
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This is a typical case where mere uninformed reliance on what can be found on the Internet can be to say the least misleading — and in any case, is not match for personal, professional, hands-on experience.
I have spent so many years working in this field, I do know what I'm talking about — and I am also very familiar with the sometimes tiresomely quirky language used by engineers between themselves.
'grounding out a spark' (or anything else for that matter) means shorting it to ground [= earth] in such a way that it cannot take place.
Of course, strictly speaking, you can't 'ground out' a spark anyway; you can only ground out the voltage that would have produced the spark — had it not been shorted out to ground instead!
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Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:08:56 GMT)
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I do wish others would read the question thoroughly before being so hasty to disagree.
grounding out = shorting out to ground
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Note added at 1 heure (2009-05-20 20:49:17 GMT)
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In fact, such short-circuits are often only partial — with the sorts of high voltages usually involved, it is more a case of leakage paths, which drain away some of the ignition energy, so the spark is weaker than it should be.
Just the same sort of thing that happens with the spark plugs in your car engine, if they get dirty or fouled up.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:05:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
This is a typical case where mere uninformed reliance on what can be found on the Internet can be to say the least misleading — and in any case, is not match for personal, professional, hands-on experience.
I have spent so many years working in this field, I do know what I'm talking about — and I am also very familiar with the sometimes tiresomely quirky language used by engineers between themselves.
'grounding out a spark' (or anything else for that matter) means shorting it to ground [= earth] in such a way that it cannot take place.
Of course, strictly speaking, you can't 'ground out' a spark anyway; you can only ground out the voltage that would have produced the spark — had it not been shorted out to ground instead!
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Note added at 17 heures (2009-05-21 13:08:56 GMT)
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I do wish others would read the question thoroughly before being so hasty to disagree.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you! "
+1
24 mins
Kathryn Litherland
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Related KudoZ points
:
8
producing sparks because of a short circuit
That's how I interpret it--it is producing sparks because it is "grounding out"--it has a short circuit and some of the current is leaking out to ground. (ground/ing = earth/ing in UK English)
Note from asker:
| I see, it is short circuit to ground then... |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
jccantrell
: Yep, making contact with ground potential while the wire is live (i.e., carrying voltage).
46 mins
|
| disagree |
Tony M
: Sorry, but you've got that the wrong way round: shorting to earth, yes; but the effect is NO sparks
54 mins
|
|
Thanks, Tony, your answer is very helpful!
|
|
| neutral |
B D Finch
: As Tony says, no sparks.
1 hr
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| agree |
Gary D
: Gorunding out (SHORTING) HT leads, always spark to ground
14 hrs
|
15 hrs
Shorting to ground
Generally you have a + Positive and a - negative and the negative is the ground on a DC circuit. (AC is different)
When something is grounding out or if you use the correct term "Shorting out" or "Shorting to Ground" it is when the positive side is taking a shorter path to ground (negative) than its intended course.
There can be a spark involved and generally there is, just before it blows the fuse. Most cars catch on fire after an accident from a wire or the battery shorting out (grounding out).
Ignition electrodes?? I believe you are talking about "spark plugs" or a spark igniter / electrode for a gas burner maybe even Glow plugs for Diesel and kerosene. (Glow plugs do not spark)
Spark plugs have a porcelain outer insulator and if it is cracked, the high voltage current will take the easiest path to ground (short) and not spark across the spark gap. The center pole in the firing side of a spark plug is called the electrode.
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/spark_plugs/index.asp?...
There is still a spark, it is just not going to fire in the intended place. Usually there is about 120,000 volts from the coil pack running through the lead to the firing gap on the spark plug.
They need high voltages because they need a big spark and if it is in an engine, compression would kill of any small low voltage spark.
When the lead is grounding, it is usually because there is a break in the lead or too high a resistance in the lead and the 120,000V looks for the easiest path to ground.
They call Spark plug leads, ignition leads - leads and not wires.
"Ignition lead wire defective and grounding spark out"
Should be "Ignition lead defective and grounding spark out"
(saying a "lead wire" is like saying "wire wire"
They use the term lead, as they carry very high Voltages in heavy insulation.
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/spark_plugs_198595-1.html
If you have a older petrol engine car, lift the bonnet at night in a dark place and you will see sparks jumping across the plug leads to metal parts of the engine. Looks a bit like a Tesla coil sometimes when the spark plug leads are wet. This is termed the leads shorting out (grounding out.)
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Note added at 16 hrs (2009-05-21 12:25:03 GMT)
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English to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Petroleum Eng/Sci / Burner
Spark plugs , Ignition electrodes, Ignition leads, are used in any aspect of igniting a Petroleum based fuel, including LPG, and natural gas. Also used for igniting Bio Fuels. except compression ignition. Even the space shuttle uses ignition igniters and electrodes for its rockets, all work on a similar principle....... contrary to Tony M's beliefs
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Note added at 17 hrs (2009-05-21 12:30:35 GMT)
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Tony M seems to have removed his reply to me.. so here it is to clarify the above comment.. When you ground a spark, naturally it sparks to ground and not across the intended place, it is still a spark. The spark just doesn't disappear into thin air.
Answerer reply: You are misreading the question; first,
it is not 'ignition leads' as in a car; second, this is
"grounding out the spark", which means 'shorting to ground
so there is no spark' — please read the question properly
before being so hasty with your 'disagree'
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2009-05-21 12:50:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The most references to grounding out I can see are in Baseball when they hit the ball into the ground, lightning grounding out, and when you have a faulty grounding out of a wire, when an appliance doesn't work.
When something is grounding out or if you use the correct term "Shorting out" or "Shorting to Ground" it is when the positive side is taking a shorter path to ground (negative) than its intended course.
There can be a spark involved and generally there is, just before it blows the fuse. Most cars catch on fire after an accident from a wire or the battery shorting out (grounding out).
Ignition electrodes?? I believe you are talking about "spark plugs" or a spark igniter / electrode for a gas burner maybe even Glow plugs for Diesel and kerosene. (Glow plugs do not spark)
Spark plugs have a porcelain outer insulator and if it is cracked, the high voltage current will take the easiest path to ground (short) and not spark across the spark gap. The center pole in the firing side of a spark plug is called the electrode.
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/spark_plugs/index.asp?...
There is still a spark, it is just not going to fire in the intended place. Usually there is about 120,000 volts from the coil pack running through the lead to the firing gap on the spark plug.
They need high voltages because they need a big spark and if it is in an engine, compression would kill of any small low voltage spark.
When the lead is grounding, it is usually because there is a break in the lead or too high a resistance in the lead and the 120,000V looks for the easiest path to ground.
They call Spark plug leads, ignition leads - leads and not wires.
"Ignition lead wire defective and grounding spark out"
Should be "Ignition lead defective and grounding spark out"
(saying a "lead wire" is like saying "wire wire"
They use the term lead, as they carry very high Voltages in heavy insulation.
http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/spark_plugs_198595-1.html
If you have a older petrol engine car, lift the bonnet at night in a dark place and you will see sparks jumping across the plug leads to metal parts of the engine. Looks a bit like a Tesla coil sometimes when the spark plug leads are wet. This is termed the leads shorting out (grounding out.)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2009-05-21 12:25:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
English to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Petroleum Eng/Sci / Burner
Spark plugs , Ignition electrodes, Ignition leads, are used in any aspect of igniting a Petroleum based fuel, including LPG, and natural gas. Also used for igniting Bio Fuels. except compression ignition. Even the space shuttle uses ignition igniters and electrodes for its rockets, all work on a similar principle....... contrary to Tony M's beliefs
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2009-05-21 12:30:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Tony M seems to have removed his reply to me.. so here it is to clarify the above comment.. When you ground a spark, naturally it sparks to ground and not across the intended place, it is still a spark. The spark just doesn't disappear into thin air.
Answerer reply: You are misreading the question; first,
it is not 'ignition leads' as in a car; second, this is
"grounding out the spark", which means 'shorting to ground
so there is no spark' — please read the question properly
before being so hasty with your 'disagree'
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2009-05-21 12:50:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The most references to grounding out I can see are in Baseball when they hit the ball into the ground, lightning grounding out, and when you have a faulty grounding out of a wire, when an appliance doesn't work.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: I think this is actually what I already said about 14 hrs ago / I think you are being deliberately perverse. There is nothing grammatically wrong with my answer. Your explanation is identical to mine, only the way you choose to interpret it differs.
1 hr
|
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Your answer is "to NOT produce sparks" A bit different to mine and not to grammatically correct. Ignition Leads and Ignition electrodes are carriers of voltage and do not produce anything.
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