Oct 3, 2013 02:29
10 yrs ago
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English term

To "give on that"... [PRETEND and CONVEY?]

English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings Similar and Interchangeab
Here's yet another one of those colloquialisms which, despite enjoying relative occurence, you can't seem to find a single lexical reference about.
1 and 2 are hits from Google:

1-[...] Indian looking man appeared in the settlement, and gave on that he was Mr. Horning's son, but his contradictory accounts of himself gained no credencie...
2-[...]Cruel, heartless, she knew, but she never gave on that she actually had heard of these doings,...

Well, the one factual reference I've got may not be, say, arguably acurate, then again it is the only one ever found: a Portuguese dictionary of English idioms. There, the entry "give on" is translated to us literally as "to let notice or perceive". Example given:

3-Don't give on that you know her.

All right. Would anyone have a lexical reference to factually check for legitimacy the examples above?

Thanks!

Discussion

FNO (asker) Oct 3, 2013:
TO TONY, CHARLES AND DAVID: It is of great import having your angles on this -- all of which combined imply, in good authority, that "give on" may of like be a corruption from "let on", either alone or with "give out".
And yet there's things with much lower occurence, dated or not, still earning their space as entries in modern idioms compiations! Go figure... Thanks a lot to all of you!
David Moore (X) Oct 3, 2013:
My understanding would be just as your google examples; according to context, either 'to claim' as in 1, or 'to admit' as in 2. But as to lexical examples, sorry I can't help there.

And that's another Brit - the use is familiar to me, though I'd not claim it's common either.
Charles Davis Oct 3, 2013:
It would be interesting to know where they got it from. I have a feeling that it may be a non-standard conflation of "let on" and "give out", and perhaps not a usage that deserves to be recognised in dictionaries at all. I would also be interested to hear the views of American colleagues here, since if this usage does genuinely exist it seems to be American.
FNO (asker) Oct 3, 2013:
POINT TAKEN, CHARLES. So I guess it's kudos for the duo Luiz L. Gomes and Donald E. Collins on account of their 10th edition (Brazil, 1996) of the "Dicionário de Expressões Idiomáticas Americanas" [Dictionary of American Idioms -- Brazilian Portuguese --].
Charles Davis Oct 3, 2013:
I have never encountered "give on" used like this (I am British). The meaning is clear: allow it to be known or perceived. A variant of "let on", as others have said.

Here's another example for your collection, again American:

"However, economists don’t give on that this is what has occurred and what they provide — rather they offer arguments as if from on high as experts who can tell us what policies should be followed."
http://pileusblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/needed-non-instru...

There are just enough to suggest that it is a usage that genuinely exists. But the examples are so few and hard to find that it is clearly rare, probably very rare. Further research would be needed to establish how rare, whether it is regional, when it is first attested, etc. This would be a major task and cannot be done just by Googling.
FNO (asker) Oct 3, 2013:
SEE, M.? And yet how come such not exactly rare occurence passed unnoticed by the plethora of idioms compilers all through the English speaking world?! The more so with similatity in meaning pointing towards "give on" as a -- most likely -- variant of "let on"...
Tony M Oct 3, 2013:
Right! Well, at least we now know that at least one of your sources is indeed from the US, and another from Canada.
Clearly the usage is the same as 'to let on', which is more familiar to me over here in Europe.
FNO (asker) Oct 3, 2013:
BETTER YET, M.! [...]"she was able to cuddle up to me in bed, and not give on that she was going to break up with me". [Ex Life, by Jack Guntridge, page 249. (from ca 2008)].

"Martina Sorbara didn’t give on that she was sick until later on in the performance." Ex some random sort of blog: http://queensjournal.ca/blogs/limelight/page/3/?flavour=mobi...
Tony M Oct 3, 2013:
Provenance of your quotes? I'm thinking that these are possibly rather dated writings? Can you give us any clues as to where they come from, and when?
Tony M Oct 3, 2013:
NS OED Lists a definition of 'to give' as "represent, describe, report to be", mentioning that it is now rare and dates from the early 17th c. That could certainly be consistent with the usage having survived in US language but fallen out of use in Europe.
Cf. also the usage 'to give out', in the sense of publish or make known — a clearly similar meaning.
FNO (asker) Oct 3, 2013:
FOR THEIR INTERRELATION: Well, not to my knowledge. And still [oddly enough] the ex. nº 3 I took from a Brazilian Portuguese dictionary of American idioms. That in limine should rule out any likelihood of UK dialectal origin, granting the book is decent research work at all...
Martin Riordan Oct 3, 2013:
I accept that... and am not saying that they are mistakes. But it is certainly not a common expression. Soon the Kudoz English experts will be waking up to a new day and will, no doubt, be able to shed more light on your question. Do you know if your three sources have any connection? It occurs to me that the expression might be more common in a given region, such as Ireland or Scotland, and have spread into rare use in general English from such a source.
FNO (asker) Oct 3, 2013:
INDEED, MR. RIORDAN! BUT... See, 1 and 2 are of English speaking sources -- and distinct from each other --, though. It'd appear to be unrealistic putting both down as mistakes altogether; and 3 even helps make the pattern begin to ring true, if its occurence is low.
Martin Riordan Oct 3, 2013:
let on I have not found any lexical reference to "give on" and I don´t think I have ever heard the expression used. But it reminded me of "let on", which would appear to have a similar meaning, which can be found here: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/let on

I am familiar with the use of "let on" as in the two examples given in this link.

Responses

18 hrs

=let on that

I'm sure that you are right when you say 'convey'
The expression is usually in the negative cos there is the idea of hiding info
The hits are low on internet though cos the more usual expression is
to let on that...
that will give you the hits you want

Peer comment(s):

neutral David Moore (X) : Half an answer, I feel.
11 hrs
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