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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

75 grades

English answer:

75 grads | grades | gradians | gons [and then explain that each is 1/400 of a full circle]

Added to glossary by MPGS
Apr 11, 2009 17:32
15 yrs ago
English term

75 grades

English Tech/Engineering Construction / Civil Engineering
This is given as a measure of skew in a bridge in a French engineering document. I looked it up in Dico TP, a French dictionary of engineering that gives brief (one word) English translations and discovered that "grade" is an alternative measure to "degree"and divides the circle into 400 grades, rather than the 360°. My question is whether it would be practical to measures skew in grades when addressing a UK engineering audience, or whether this would lead to incomprehension, or even errors when people assumed that grade was just a different word for degree?
Responses
4 75 grads | grades | gradians | gons [and then explain that each is 1/400 of a full circle]
4 75 degrees (or whatever the equivalency is)
4 "83.333 degrees"
Change log

Apr 12, 2009 09:46: MPGS Created KOG entry

Discussion

B D Finch (asker) Apr 12, 2009:
Grade, not Gradient! Thanks Gary. However, this is about skew, not gradients and would certainly not be measured in %.
Gary D Apr 12, 2009:
A skew gradient-based "A skew gradient-based Newton method is used to solve the capacitated user equilibrium within the feasible region of path flows. In the path-flow region, the straight gradient is defined as the derivative of the objective function with respect to the flow of the corresponding path, while the skew gradient is defined for each particular origin destination pair and is characterized by the average cost of all the paths for that pair. Instead of movement of flow toward the shortest path, in the equilibration procedure path flows below the average decrease and path flows above the average increase"
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7R...
Gary D Apr 12, 2009:
Grades / Gradients are mostly measured in % Could you give the sentence please.

It can be a grading of 75 degrees, (75 grade) or it can be that the skew is increasing in 75 Segmental grades to achieve the optimum bridge ramp grade.
The bridge lead up grades may increase in 75 Segmental increments (degrees) to achieve the desired final bridge gradient. And the final gradient will be a calculated percentage of the overall construction.

The uphill portion of the Gateway Bridge is 1.1km with a gradient of 5.1%. The downhill section is 1.1km.
Bashiqa Apr 11, 2009:
Having spent many year in engineering I would go for degrees. I have only once come across grades and that was locally here in France on a triangulation point. I thought it was a mistake having 400 'degrees'.

Responses

7 mins
Selected

75 grads | grades | gradians | gons [and then explain that each is 1/400 of a full circle]

The grad, also called grade, gradian, or gon is 1/400 of a full circle, so one full circle is 400 grads and a right angle is 100 grads. It is a decimal subunit of the right angle. A kilometer was historically defined as a centi-gon of arc along a great circle of the Earth, so the kilometer is the decimal analog to the sexagesimal nautical mile. The gon is used mostly in triangulation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle#Units

:)

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Note added at 28 mins (2009-04-11 18:00:23 GMT)
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Unless keeping the reference to the original unit system (used since the French republic and widely used by artillerymen) is important to the context, i would advise converting.
The proportion is simple:
100 gons = 90 (sexagesimal) degrees
75 gons = 75*90/100 = 67.5º = 67º30' = sixty seven [sexagesimal (current)] degrees and thirty minutes

:)

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Note added at 35 mins (2009-04-11 18:07:46 GMT)
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Thank you B D Finch. I think no engineer is prepared to easily understand that unless you either explain that the unit used is non-conventional or just give the equivalent 67º30'
:)

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Note added at 16 hrs (2009-04-12 09:45:56 GMT) Post-grading
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Thank you :)
Note from asker:
Thanks MPGS. Interesting background info. However, what I need to know is whether one can expect UK English speaking civil engineers to be familiar with grades or grads.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, I think that this has scary space shuttle overtones (where the Americans didn't realise that no other scientists, not even British ones, would use imperial units of measurement). I shall, of course, need to be guided by my client, but think he might consider rewriting this bit of computer program."
3 mins

75 degrees (or whatever the equivalency is)

I certainly thought it was a mistranslation. In Spanish we have "grado" which is "degree" and "grade" would be a false cogante. I assumed that it what it was in this case too, and even now I feel strongly that it may indeed be a false cognate, in spite of the source you found.

It would be better to go with "degrees" because many will make the same assumtion that I did.

Mike :)
Note from asker:
Thanks Michael. The translation will only be used by specialist engineers, so the question is whether it would be equally confusing to that audience. Spanish is not a relevant language for this purpose. The variant of English has to be UK.
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10 mins

"83.333 degrees"

The equivalent in degrees (75x1.11111)

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Note added at 16 mins (2009-04-11 17:48:46 GMT)
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Saludos :))

Dictionary of Unit Measurement - [ Traducir esta página ]astrophysics unit milliard equal to 1 billion degrees celsius ...... The unit was used to measure land; in fact, arpentage is the French word for surveying. ...... The angle of inclination, in grads or grades [1], is not equal to the percentage ...... In this usage one kip is equal to 83.333 foot pounds (lbf·ft), ...
www.scribd.com/doc/12402995/Dictionary-of-Unit-Measurement - 977k - En caché - Páginas similares


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Note added at 47 mins (2009-04-11 18:19:36 GMT)
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Correction: Reflecting on MPGS's comment:

Efectivamente me equivoque:

360/400=0.9 x 75= 67.5 degrees

VARIANT: "67.5 DEGREES"
Peer comment(s):
neutral MPGS : eski: mi conversión no coincide con la tuya, luego una de las dos está mal o lo están las dos :) | Sí creo q t equivocas: 75/1.111 =67.5 :)) | gcs :)
19 mins
Hola MPGS; 400/360=1.111111x 75=83.3333332 saludos :)) [tal vez me equivoco en mi cálculo; VER: "variant"] Saludos :))
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