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Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

dichttimmeren

English translation:

secure(d); protect(ed); safe as Richard's houses

Added to glossary by Michael Beijer
Nov 26, 2015 10:01
8 yrs ago
Dutch term

dichttimmeren

Dutch to English Tech/Engineering Telecom(munications) mobile phones
Moet ik nog extra beveiliging voor mijn 3G/4G nemen? Ik heb een iPhone en die is toch al voldoende dichtgetimmerd?

This is from a survey into secure internet via mobile phone. One of the respondents claims that the "iPhone is al voldoende dichtgetimmerd". Would "secured" be sufficient for this as a translation?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 secure(d); protect(ed)
4 safe
3 +1 safe as houses
Change log

Dec 1, 2015 15:41: Michael Beijer Created KOG entry

Discussion

Kitty Brussaard Nov 27, 2015:
:-) Have a nice (and, as far as I am concerned, not necessarily quiet) weekend!
Richard Purdom Nov 27, 2015:
as quiet as a mouse
Michael Beijer Nov 27, 2015:
agreed Will shut up now ;)
Kitty Brussaard Nov 27, 2015:
I suggest: Let's drop this discussion from here :-). It seems to me that we've provided Willemina with more than enough options and insights and there simply is no 'one and only solution' in this case. The choice partly depends also on the register you decide to use (colloquial/informal or more formal). I therefore suggest we leave it to Willemina to decide on what she thinks is the best solution in her specific context.
Richard Purdom Nov 27, 2015:
Ah, SWMBO!

Suggestion sounds OK, personally I can't see the forest or wood for the trees anymore, or is it the other way round? :-%
Michael Beijer Nov 27, 2015:
I suggest: "Do I really need to add additional 35/4G security? I paid £600 for the damned thing!"
Michael Beijer Nov 27, 2015:
OK, you win, this round asked Jen (my wife), and her immediate reaction was, "ugh, that's hideous. Very American."

She suggested changing

"My iPhone is already plenty safe as it is."

to

"My iPhone is already safe enough as it is."

Which, in our context could then be changed to something like:

Ik heb een iPhone en die is toch al voldoende dichtgetimmerd? = Isn’t my iPhone already safe enough as it is?

PS: the official version is of course As stubborn as a Beijer. ;-)
Richard Purdom Nov 27, 2015:
btw, which one is it?

Stubborn as a mule
Stubborn as an ox

??
Richard Purdom Nov 27, 2015:
There is already plenty of casualties as it is Those are the first words from the first hit from your first link!!!

You're confusing idiomatic with downright poor use (although plenty as adjective is common so passable in the US). Ask your wife if she thinks this is typical US or UK use.
Michael Beijer Nov 27, 2015:
freek's suggestion isn't necessarily US English it's informal, captures the meaning of "en die is toch al voldoende dichtgetimmerd?", and is understandable by all. sounds good to me.

See:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="is already plenty * as it... (Google search for: "is already plenty * as it is" site:uk)

and

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="it is already plenty *" s... (Google search for: "it is already plenty *" site:uk)

and
"F1 is already plenty safe as it is. In fact almost every official racing event is safe, save WRC cars flying off cliffs, and even then those are freak accidents that cannot be avoided." http://www.gprm.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4723.15
Richard Purdom Nov 27, 2015:
duuh, so sloppy US English is OK?
Michael Beijer Nov 27, 2015:
@freek: "is already plenty safe as it is" is another good option, and has the added benefit that it will also be understood by everyone
freekfluweel Nov 27, 2015:
My iPhone is already plenty safe as it is? .
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
well I'm out of my league now, I can't compete with a Cambridge graduate and copywriter, but I can do the Yorkshire accent so beloved of the chattering classes you're probably referring to,
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
but something else As I said, I asked my wife (100% British, Cambridge English graduate; writer & copy writer/editor), what she thought about the idea of using the phrase "safe as houses" in this context, involving the security of an iPhone, and she told me it just sounds weird to her, and she wouldn't recommend it. She said the meaning isn’t quite right. It's also quite old-fashioned, and many young people won't know it. Maybe it would work if it was an advert on the telly [she went on to say] ... and there is this old British bloke, with a cup of tea, and he's selling home insurance or something, and he says, in a thick UK accent [not sure which one she used], "Them [the building society or whatever he is advertising], why they're as safe as houses, they are!".

Anyway, not quite iPhone security. If you see what I mean.

;)
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
No wounds to lick here. I fully admit that my English isn’t as British as yours, or as American as, e.g., my mother's. I moved around too much for that when growing up. It's a constant source of amusement to my British wife how I never seem to know any idioms, usually the British ones, but even some American ones. So I suppose it's people like myself who stand to benefit from plain English.

Incidentally, "dichttimmeren" might be quirky, but its meaning (in this context) will still be clear to most people who hear it. This can't be said of "safe as houses". So use at your own risk, I would say.
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
mais uma vez, 'dichttimmeren' is quirky Dutch, and thank god for that. It's colourful, because it also represents a certain cultural facet (I do notice how popular aftimmeren is in NL).

I think you're still licking your wounds because you didn't know 'safe as houses'. What you think is plain English may well be staid and boring to a native reader, and not reflect rhe richness of the source. Likewise if I tried to translate into Dutch.
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
Leaving aside the question of how creative it is to use a common idiom, I think there is a time for creativity, and there is time for plain, unambiguous language, which 99% of people reading your text will understand without having to resort to a dictionary (or a grandma). As I said already, it all depends on your target readers: if you are looking to write chatty, cute British marketing copy, by all means, leef jezelf uit and delve deep into your treasure trove of quintessentially British idioms. However, some texts require a form of English that is free from such quirky language, and your readers will thank you for speaking plainly.
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
...which reminds me of another idiomatic expression, 'clever clogs';-)

my family, whoare not exactly chavs but I'm sure 50% of them couldn't even pronounce 'impenetrable', would use 'common as muck' for to emphasis the unremarkability(!) of anything standard.

As for idiomatic expressions, they should be used in translations, that is true creativity!
Evgeny Artemov (X) Nov 26, 2015:
You said it : safe bet ;-)
You knew all the time. Have you been trolling the honourable community? ;-)
Willemina Hagenauw (asker) Nov 26, 2015:
Wow I'm impressed with the discussion and contributions/suggestions. Many thanks for that. I personally feel that something along the lines of "secure" may be a safe bet, to avoid confusion....
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
@Richard: speaking of misunderstanding idioms, doesn't "as common as muck" mean sth like of low social status, rather than merely common, as you used it?

see e.g.: "as common as muck ... British informal Of low social status."

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/as-comm...

Hmm, just asked my wife (who I always turn to with questions re British usage), and she told me common as muck can be used like that, too. she also said that using safe as houses in this context didn't sound quite right.
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
@Richard: It depends on who you are writing for, but I know that there are a lot of people out there who speak English, but who are not 100% British, or 100% American, and who just don't know all the highly idiomatic stuff Brits often like to use in their writing.
For example, that list you just provided us with (common as muck, daft as a brush, thick as a plank, good as gold, mad as a hatter, sly as a fox, cold as ice, sharp as a knife) -- many of these expressions are best avoided if you want to ensure your text is understandable by a wide audience. These phrases are indeed colourful and great (and are even being lost at a fast pace in today's world of Euro and international English), but may just end up alienating your readers, which surely isn't the goal of communication?
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
As right as rain!
Kitty Brussaard Nov 26, 2015:
@Richard You're welcome. I would say the translation you're suggesting is as safe as houses :-)
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
Kitty's link ...and I've just seen your link Kitty, thanks!

on this week’s five apps, we bring you the best tools to keep your phone secure. From locking down your Wi-Fi and passwords to locating and eliminating viruses, with this week’s selection installed your device will be as safe as houses.
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
It's common as muck that expression Michael, like daft as a brush,thick as a plank, good as gold, mad as a hatter, sly as a fox, cold as ice, sharp as a knife, etc. Most natives are going to understand all this much better than 90% of the crap we write for HR blurb or contracts. Besides,'dichtgetimmerd' is also quite a colourful (colorful to you) term, is it not?
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
as safe as houses ... ... might actually be used on either side of the pond, but if a genius like myself needs to Google it, it's probably best to avoid it in your translations. that's one of my golden rules: Avoid using anything that is too British, or too American. don't wanna exclude people just because their vocabulary sucks
Kitty Brussaard Nov 26, 2015:
@Richard See http://features.en.softonic.com/the-five-best-security-apps-... :-)
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
impenetrable? tut tut

more obscure safe house stuff from over the pond http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/2013/07/safe-...
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
hmm, what about something like Moet ik nog extra beveiliging voor mijn 3G/4G nemen? Ik heb een iPhone en die is toch al voldoende dichtgetimmerd? =
Do I still need extra protection for my 3G/4G? I have an iPhone, and thought that they were already almost impenetrable.

impenetrable calling to mind a fortress, etc. sounds pretty good to me.
Richard Purdom Nov 26, 2015:
Thanks Michael, you're a gent!

Obviously' protected' is fine technically, but you've got 'beveiliging' in the sentence as well and can't use it twice.
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
hmm just noticed who is saying it. it's one of the respondents. in that case, sure, feel free to translate it any way you want really.

personally, since I read/write a lot of IT crap, I might even use a "nasty sales blurby" phrase like "extremely robust security features". but Richard's suggestion would also be OK, although it would depend on who the target audience is, as "safe as house" is very British, and won't be understood by a lot of people (even a few Brits ;)
Kitty Brussaard Nov 26, 2015:
Dichttimmeren Deze term heeft de strekking dat met alle eventuele risico's (al dan niet voortvloeiend uit onvoorziene omstandigheden) rekening is gehouden. Denk hierbij bijvoorbeeld aan een dichtgetimmerd contract, waarbij alle risico's - met name op het gebied van aansprakelijkheid - zijn afgedekt.

In dit geval gaat het om het afdekken van de beveiligingsrisico's die zich zouden kunnen voordoen rond 3G/4G. De geïnterviewde vraagt zich hardop af of deze risico's niet al afdoende zijn afgedekt door de standaard beveiligingsfunctionaliteit op zijn/haar iPhone.

Daarom denk ik in de richting van 'airtight' of een term met een soortgelijke strekking. Zodanig dichtgetimmerd dus dat er niets - maar dan ook niets - aan het toeval is overgelaten en dat alle eventuele risico's op voorhand zijn uitgesloten.
Michael Beijer Nov 26, 2015:
locked down Saying that something is dichtgetimmerd is pretty emphatic language. In addition to secure/protected/safe, there are of course also other ways of putting this.

"Battened down", or "batten down the hatches", is more something like: to prepare for a difficulty or crisis, than ensuring something is secure.

One phrase that is used quite often in the IT world is "to lock something down", or "locked down". However, this also has connotations of the device being secured with a special passcode or something. It might work though.

See e.g.: https://goo.gl/5nrw6T (Google search for: locked down iphone security)

~

Upon second thought, I think that "locked down" is too specific and probably not applicable here.
philgoddard Nov 26, 2015:
Is there an element of humour in the use of this word?
Kitty Brussaard Nov 26, 2015:
Airtight security features Perhaps you could use something like: (...) an iPhone, which, to my knowledge, already comes with (a set of) airtight security features.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Nov 26, 2015:
As an ex-navy man, I'd say, 'battened down', but am not sure if it would play in a survey form. :-)

Proposed translations

+3
12 mins
Dutch term (edited): dichtgetimmerd / dichttimmeren
Selected

secure(d); protect(ed)

I think both would work fine, among other options.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2015-11-26 10:16:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

another option is to use something along the lines of "the iPhone has extremely robust security features"...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2015-11-26 19:31:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would like to add to my answer:

Moet ik nog extra beveiliging voor mijn 3G/4G nemen? Ik heb een iPhone en die is toch al voldoende dichtgetimmerd? =
Do I still need extra protection for my 3G/4G? I have an iPhone, and thought that they were already almost impenetrable.

impenetrable calling to mind a fortress, etc. sounds pretty good to me.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2015-11-27 13:58:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yet another option (derived from our colourful banter in the Discussion area; thanks freek/Richard/Jen!):

Ik heb een iPhone en die is toch al voldoende dichtgetimmerd? = Isn’t my iPhone already safe enough as it is?
Peer comment(s):
agree L Copland
10 mins
Thanks!
agree philgoddard
4 hrs
Thanks!
neutral Richard Purdom : oops, reads like nasty sales blurb Michael, 'extremely robust security features' indeed! Real people don't talk like that! It's a question btw in the original, because the writer is not sure because it's informal ...it's a survey not brochure
8 hrs
that's funny, because that is exactly the language used in this context. you might not like it, but you can't write about iPhone security and not use similar lingo, it'd just stand out like a sore thumb / just saw who speaker is,see d. entry
agree Kitty Brussaard : With (almost) impenetrable.
9 hrs
Thanks Kitty!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to all contributors"
27 mins

safe

contextually. ;-)
Something went wrong...
+1
9 hrs

safe as houses

Better to make this less uptight I reckon.

Am I supposed to pay for extra protection for my 3G/4G? I've got an iPhone, and that's already as safe as houses isn't it?
Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Beijer : i like the idea of going with something less formal/uptight, but think this is a bit too British for many target audiences / ha ha, admit that I had to look it up, being a fake Brit (only been here five or six years)
19 mins
too British! praise indeed sir! And not as obscure as you think http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0261490/
agree Kitty Brussaard : See f.i. http://features.en.softonic.com/the-five-best-security-apps-...
31 mins
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