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مكتب الارتباط
شاى سايب
May 14, 2006 08:23
18 yrs ago
Arabic term

ghassaline

Arabic to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
this is actually from a text in French... the author is talking about the organization of a feminine society in Mzab. She mentions that there are priestesses who are "ghassalines," or women who wash the dead. I looked this word up in Google and there were no hits. Can anyone give me an idea of how to transliterate this into English?
Proposed translations (English)
5 +2 That's Algerien French
4 +3 ghassaleen
4 +2 ghassaline
5 meghasseline
4 washers of corpses/ corpse washers/ add [ritual] for more clarification
Change log

May 14, 2006 08:37: Tegan Raleigh changed "Language pair" from "French to English" to "Arabic to English"

Discussion

algtranslator May 15, 2006:
Tegan, I think I found a way to express it and people can find it on google... keep the singular form GHASSAL and maybe add S for plural... Look below for links :)
zax May 14, 2006:
Ghassaline only wash the corpse, they do not embalm it. Clean burial is required in some religions.
Tegan Raleigh (asker) May 14, 2006:
Richard, you're right. Corpse-washer sounds like it could be used as an insult... "your mother was a hamster and your father was a corpse-washer," or something. And according to the text, it's a position of great respect... I agree with you about the other option being better.
Sam Berner May 14, 2006:
Tegan, this is a bit of a wider shot, but since perfume and oils are used after the washing, why don't you use the term "embalmers"?
Richard Benham May 14, 2006:
I think "washers of the dead" has a more respectful ring to it.
Diane de Cicco May 14, 2006:
Why not say "women who was the dead". It sounds a little more human perhaps and less mechanical or laundry-like
Tegan Raleigh (asker) May 14, 2006:
yep, pretty much looking for a transliteration (I want to leave the Arabic in there, but just in case a reader looks it up or something, I want them to be pointed in the right direction), but any information is very helpful! I figured I wasn't getting it right because there wasn't very much in google. If it's such a widespread practice, then I'd think there'd be more on the WWW. "corpse-washers" doesn't sound so great, but it works better in a sentence than "washers of the dead." maybe.
Richard Benham May 14, 2006:
@algtranslator: I knew that! (I referred to as a "mountain" above. It's in Lebanon.

I actually came here to say that the not very euphonious expression "corpse-washer" gets over 62 thousand Googlies.
algtranslator May 14, 2006:
Richard Benham, "Tallet el ghassaline" is a place/village and Tallet means hill :)
Richard Benham May 14, 2006:
Why not call it "ghassaleen"? I assume you want to leave the (transliterated) Arabic word and translate the French explanation. BTW The spelling "ghassalin" gets all of 7 Googlies, all apparently for the mountain....
sarahl (X) May 14, 2006:
sorry irat56, women would be rassalat.
Tegan Raleigh (asker) May 14, 2006:
hunh... I swear I put it in the AR-EN forum, that's why the explanatory thing in the beginning about it being in French...
Pierre POUSSIN May 14, 2006:
Yes, women, according to the question!
Pierre POUSSIN May 14, 2006:
Same as Sarah! It IS an Arabic word and dsome colleagues will certainly answer.
"Tallet el ghassalines" could be "The mountain of the washerwomen", not very poetical, I think!
sarahl (X) May 14, 2006:
people who wash, not women, this is a masculine form.
sarahl (X) May 14, 2006:
this is really Arabic, Tegan, it means "people who wash". You may want to ask this in Arabic to English, unless our friend up in WA is still around.
Richard Benham May 14, 2006:
Sorry, should be big G: Tallet el Ghassaline. Google keeps asking me whether I mean "gasoline".
Richard Benham May 14, 2006:
Funny! I get three hits, all to "Tallet el ghassaline".

Proposed translations

+2
15 mins
Selected

That's Algerien French

In muslim countries, they have GHASSAL (singular) = غسال
GHASSALINE is the plural, the wash the dead bodies before burrying them (ritual)... so you can keep the same word GHASSALINE in English or say dead washer or whatever you find convenient :)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2006-05-15 07:47:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

OPF - [ Traduire cette page ]There are professional bathers, known as ghassal, in every city. While being bathed, the dead body is placed on a plank of wood, with the head facing the ...
www.opf.org.pk/almanac/C/customs.htm - 46k

tasawwuf - [ Traduire cette page ]In this type of Bai'ah, one becomes like the 'corpse in the hands of the ghassal'. (washer), where one gives one's shaykh absolute empowerment to lead one ...
www.soofie.org.za/tasawwuf/Intiation.html

Fethullah Gulen's Web Site : Books : The Statue of Our Souls ... - [ Traduire cette page ][2] Ghassal: The person who conducts the ritual bath for the dead in Islam. [Viewed 685 times]. Previous Next. Rate This Article. Bad, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Good ...
en.fgulen.com/a.page/books/the.statue.of. our.souls.revival.in.islamic.thought.and.activism/a1976.html - 37k - Résultat complémentaire -

kairouan.org le portail de référence, vous allez découvrir un ...Ghassal- mot féminin indiquant celui qui fait la toilette mortuaire. Ghazza- sable ou poussière. Ghorbel- tamis pour bien préparer la graine de couscous. ...
www.kairouan.org/fr/culture/traditions/dialecte.htm - 83k -

Ali Gheissari - Despots of the World Unite! Satire in the Iranian ... - [ Traduire cette page ]In a follow-up comment the journal expresses surprise that the governor of Bam ever let a mortuary worker (Ghassal) from Bam hear about the Majlis so that ...
muse.jhu.edu/journals/comparative_studies_ of_south_asia_africa_and_the_middle_east/v025/25.2gheissari.html -



Peer comment(s):
agree sarahl (X)
2 mins
I would leave it Ghassalin(e) or better "GHASSALEEN" as Richard suggested ( pronounced correctly)
agree Pierre POUSSIN
1 hr
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
19 mins

ghassaline

I believe "ghassaline" should be left as is. It is an berber or Arab word (see below).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2006-05-14 08:43:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In English it would be "ghassalin"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2006-05-14 08:45:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Fair enough, you beat me to it !
Reference:

http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/lebanon/map/m1169409/tallet_el_ghassaline.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Richard Benham : There's more than one way to transliterate Arabic, unfortunately: I have two Lebanese friends with the surnames "Rachid" and "Rasheed", for example.//And think how many ways the word مجاهدي is transliterated in the press.
6 mins
yes, I've seen both too.
agree Pierre POUSSIN
1 hr
Thanks
Something went wrong...
32 mins

washers of corpses/ corpse washers/ add [ritual] for more clarification

When a Muslim dies, the corpse should be washed by a knowledgeable Muslim three times. Before washing, he or she is given minor ablution. Women wash dead women, and men wash dead men. However, a woman can wash her dead husband. The deceased’s relatives and others should not see the corpse being washed, and the corpse should be scented with camphor, musk, and similar scents.
So it isn't limited to women, really.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2006-05-14 09:12:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I fully agree with Richard's "ghassaleen".
Peer comment(s):
neutral Richard Benham : Hello. I think the original French included an explanation, and Tegan was looking for a transliteration, not a translation.
8 mins
Thanks for bringing it to my attention
Something went wrong...
+3
58 mins

ghassaleen

It should be pronounced with [i:] after L
Peer comment(s):
agree Richard Benham : Thanks. I did suggest this some time ago. The problem is, of course, that many different systems of transliteration are in use.//Yes, algtrans has confirmed this.
3 mins
Thanks a lot! I think "ghassaleen " is closer to the original Arabic pronunciation.
agree Pierre POUSSIN
1 hr
Thank you!
agree Zeinab Asfour
11 hrs
Thank you, Zeinab!
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

meghasseline

meghasseline = people/those who wash corpses. ghassaline = people/those who wash.
Peer comment(s):
neutral algtranslator : Zax, where did you find meghasseline?
9 hrs
هذا هو صيغه التشديد للفعل "غسل" كما في فعل" درس" مدرسين 000 عربي 101
Something went wrong...
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