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Bogen vs. Blatt

English translation: individual sheet vs. stacked or bound sheet

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Bogen vs. Blatt
English translation:individual sheet vs. stacked or bound sheet
Entered by: jccantrell

22:59 Aug 14, 2018
German to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Printing & Publishing
German term or phrase: Bogen vs. Blatt
Hi folks.

I am working on a manual for a machine for counting the number of sheets by weighing them. (Blatt-Zählen mit Wägetechnik)

All the information I find says that this 'Bogen' (as in Papierbogen) is a sheet of paper AND Blatt is also a sheet of paper. Here are some examples (not really much context):

Wiegegenauigkeit:
Beim Format 70x100cm (40g/m²) = +/- 3 Bogen auf 1000 Blatt = (0,3%)

Die Zählwaage ist zur Ermittlung der Bogenanzahl auf einem Rüttler vorgesehen. (The Rüttler is a vibration table to align the sheets of paper.)

So, as you can see, not much context. However, for the first example, I need two separate words for 'Bogen' and 'Blatt'. Or are both really sheet?
I thought of 'ream' but that is translated as 'Ries' and my manual does not have that.

I need the wisdom of the web.

All contributions gratefully accepted.

Thanks.
jccantrell
United States
Local time: 02:44
individual sheet vs. stacked or bound sheet
Explanation:
+/- 3 sheets per 1000-sheet stack

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2018-08-15 08:57:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.controlengr.com/accucount.html
Counting Accuracy: ± 1 sheet per stack

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2018-08-15 21:28:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Looks like your context:
https://baumann-mbs.de/dokumente/downloads/511/mengenbestimm...
Bei der Mengenbestimmung per Messung der Bogen- oder Lagenstaerke kann eine Referenzmenge von beispielsweise 1000 Blatt genutzt und deren Dicke gemessen werden. Dieser Wert wird danach auf den Stapel umgerechnet.

A larger stack improves accuracy and reduces the influence of inconsistencies.
https://www.ricelake.com/Portals/0/Resources/9af6b1cbf2b24ec...
As an example, in counting sheets of paper, the operator must review the effect of moisture on the weight of the pieces at the top of the stack compared to pieces at the middle of the stack. The pieces on the top of the stack absorb more moisture and are heavier then the pieces in the middle that are only exposed to moisture at the edges of the sheets...
Sample size is the most common cause of parts counting inaccuracy because operators tend to use the minimum number of sample pieces. The scale is defaulted to compute average piece weight from a 10-piece sample. However, using a 25-piece sample will greatly enhance counting accuracy.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2018-08-15 21:50:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.graficon.ch/bogenschneider/
Die geschnittenen Einzelnutzen (Bogen) fallen auf ein Transportband. Die Anzahl der Bogen pro Stapel kann vorgewählt werden. Nach erreichter Bogenzahl wird das Band zeitgesteuert vorgeschoben.
Selected response from:

Herbmione Granger
Germany
Local time: 11:44
Grading comment
First, let me thank EVERYBODY who contributed, even references. I went with a variation of this answer in the end.
The terms 'Lage', which was in the TM as 'ream' and 'Ries' which everybody translates as 'ream' also came up.
In the end, I gave the customer a note about all these terms, the trouble I had with them and that they may or may not be right.
My agency said the client was aware and had run into the same problem with several other languages.
Remedy? I can only hope.
Thanks again to all!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3sheet discrepancy
David Hollywood
4 +2signature vs. sheet
Katrin Braams
3individual sheet vs. stacked or bound sheet
Herbmione Granger
Summary of reference entries provided
Helpful?
Kim Metzger
Bogen vs. Blatt
Klaus Herrmann

  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
sheet discrepancy


Explanation:
I would suggest in your particular context

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-08-15 00:20:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

+/- 3 Bogen = plus minus 3 sheets so you might even just leave it at that

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-08-15 00:21:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think something like this will help you get round it

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-08-15 00:25:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or "(sheet) variance" of +/- 3 sheets

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2018-08-15 00:27:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

per 1000 sheets

David Hollywood
Local time: 06:44
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 75

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: You don't need two words in English. You can just say "discrepancy three sheets per thousand".
4 hrs
  -> thanks Phil
agree  Edith Kelly
4 hrs
  -> thanks Edith
agree  Armorel Young: Yes, I don't see the need for two separate words - the machine weighs to an accuracy of +/- 3 sheets per 1,000
12 hrs
  -> thanks Armorel and I like your "to an accuracy of"
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
signature vs. sheet


Explanation:
A Bogen is a very large sheet of paper which will eventually be cut/folded into several pages.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2018-08-15 14:20:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think what it means is that the precision is +/- 3 signatures per 1000 sheets.


    https://www.formaxprinting.com/blog/2018/01/book-printing-lingo-what-is-a-signature/
    https://clearimageprinting.com/inc/2016/03/21/what-is-a-print-signature-an-imposition-and-a-spread/
Katrin Braams
Germany
Local time: 11:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Stuart and Aida Nelson
10 hrs
agree  gangels (X)
3 days 1 hr
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
individual sheet vs. stacked or bound sheet


Explanation:
+/- 3 sheets per 1000-sheet stack

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2018-08-15 08:57:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.controlengr.com/accucount.html
Counting Accuracy: ± 1 sheet per stack

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2018-08-15 21:28:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Looks like your context:
https://baumann-mbs.de/dokumente/downloads/511/mengenbestimm...
Bei der Mengenbestimmung per Messung der Bogen- oder Lagenstaerke kann eine Referenzmenge von beispielsweise 1000 Blatt genutzt und deren Dicke gemessen werden. Dieser Wert wird danach auf den Stapel umgerechnet.

A larger stack improves accuracy and reduces the influence of inconsistencies.
https://www.ricelake.com/Portals/0/Resources/9af6b1cbf2b24ec...
As an example, in counting sheets of paper, the operator must review the effect of moisture on the weight of the pieces at the top of the stack compared to pieces at the middle of the stack. The pieces on the top of the stack absorb more moisture and are heavier then the pieces in the middle that are only exposed to moisture at the edges of the sheets...
Sample size is the most common cause of parts counting inaccuracy because operators tend to use the minimum number of sample pieces. The scale is defaulted to compute average piece weight from a 10-piece sample. However, using a 25-piece sample will greatly enhance counting accuracy.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2018-08-15 21:50:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.graficon.ch/bogenschneider/
Die geschnittenen Einzelnutzen (Bogen) fallen auf ein Transportband. Die Anzahl der Bogen pro Stapel kann vorgewählt werden. Nach erreichter Bogenzahl wird das Band zeitgesteuert vorgeschoben.

Herbmione Granger
Germany
Local time: 11:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 6
Grading comment
First, let me thank EVERYBODY who contributed, even references. I went with a variation of this answer in the end.
The terms 'Lage', which was in the TM as 'ream' and 'Ries' which everybody translates as 'ream' also came up.
In the end, I gave the customer a note about all these terms, the trouble I had with them and that they may or may not be right.
My agency said the client was aware and had run into the same problem with several other languages.
Remedy? I can only hope.
Thanks again to all!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


55 mins peer agreement (net): +3
Reference: Helpful?

Reference information:
Blatt
Papier und Karton in ungefalztem Zustand und kleiner als das Format DIN A3. Für Formate, die im ungefalztem Zustand größer als A3 sind, wird im allgemeinen der Ausdruck Bogen verwendet.
Bogen
Oberbegriff für auf Format geschnittenes Papier, größer als DIN A3. Gefalzte Bogen werden als Falzbogen bezeichnet.
https://druckzone.de/service/lexikon#B

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 155

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  writeaway
44 mins
agree  Eleanore Strauss
7 hrs
agree  Stuart and Aida Nelson
20 hrs
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10 hrs peer agreement (net): +4
Reference: Bogen vs. Blatt

Reference information:
I don't know how to distinguish this in English, but one Bogen can be cut into several Blatt - e.g. if you take a sheet (Bogen) and print a 4-up, that'll give you four sheets (Blatt). See "Schneiden" in the reference.


    https://www.druckerei-schmelter.de/weiterverarbeitung/bogen-blattverarbeitung/
Klaus Herrmann
Germany
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 266

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  writeaway: Hi Klaus!! Long time no see.
1 hr
agree  Stuart and Aida Nelson
11 hrs
agree  Kim Metzger: The paper expert speaks. Hi Klaus!
17 hrs
agree  Herbmione Granger: Not sure it applies here, but I saw on wikipedia: For example, a ream of 20 lb, 8.5 in × 11 in (216 mm × 279 mm) paper weighs 5 pounds, because it has been cut from a larger sheet into four pieces. Could be where the expression "piece of paper" comes from
1 day 6 mins
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